Standard or bad call PreF/Flop?

[Jonezycat]

Hey guys, was wondering if this was the correct play or should I have folded preflop. 25$ 72 entries Live Tourney 6 places get paid down to 15 people.

Blinds at 400-800

7 handed:
SB: --
BB: (HERO) - 14,600$
UTG --
MP: (Villian) 2300$
HIJ: --
CO: 12000
BTN: --

Preflop: Hero Dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG Folds, MP raises AI - 2300, HiJack Folds, CO Calls 2300, SB Folds, Hero Calls 1500

<font color="black"> </font> Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Villian Bets 3500, Hero Calls

<font color="black"> </font> Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero Checks, Villian Bets 1200, Hero raises AI 9600..

Mainly I was wondering is this standard? Should I have folded preflop and just try to play to the money or am I forced to call here because of the odds?

I'm pretty new posting here and all feedback is appreciated. Thnks!

[Tackleberry]

Hi Jonezycat! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I wouldn´t have called this preflop. Surely you get tremendous odds but you are facing another bigstack (who can easily cripple you) and who cold-calls a shorty-raise without reraising. This throws up the question if he don´t mind anyone getting into the pot behind him. Maybe AA/KK?

On the flop he (correctly) gives you odds of slightly below 2:1 which means, that he definitely likes this flop. As you cannot expect to get to see two cards as he will fire the rest of his stack on the turn if you call and do not improve, you just can account one single card left for your draw. This means you need 4:1 with your nut-flush-draw. If you are sure, that you will get the rest of his chips if you improve, a call is +EV, as you invest 3500 chips to win a pot of 16600 (6900 pf + 3500 flop + 6200 remaining). This gives you odds of 4.7:1.

At least I think it´s not that sure, that Villain will call your all-in on the turn if another spade comes, which means that your odds go worse ... but this depends on your reads on him. Is he able to laydown TP/TK?

All in all, I would (definitely) fold preflop, and fold the flop if I expect Villain to be a good, thinking player and call him if I expect him to loose-call anything with his TP.

[Larude]

I agree with Tackleberry that the no isolation move from CO points at AA/KK, so fold preflop. As played your getting more then 3:1 (not two to 1 odds), including some IO I think it is a call. He looks strong though AAK at least maybe QQQ, AAA or AQ, 666. That turn card is really ugly for you it makes him a potential house with 66, AQ or AA and quads with QQ, I would lead out on the turn for 3500 and fold to a shove. It may seem pretty weak but in this protected pot I can't see villain shoving over hero with AJ or AT.

[Tackleberry]

[ QUOTE ]
[...] As played your getting more then 3:1 (not two to 1 odds), [...]

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, you´re perfectly right!!

[kuro]

These spots are very read/image dependent. This is a decent spot for pushing preflop to isolate the short stack. I would pretty much never flat call, because you're entirely too short to be playing a big pot (especially out of position). So, I'd be looking to shove or fold depending on reads.

As played, I'd probably just open shove the flop. You frequently get more credit for having a big hand with a player all-in. Stack sizes are bad for check-raising all-in on the flop.

The line of calling the flop, betting out on the turn, and folding the nut flush to a shove with these pot odds (and especially at this buy-in) is absolutely horrid.

[Jonezycat]

Thanks for the posts guys, In hindsight I guess I should have looked more into him coldcalling preflop. He IS a thinking player and knows that I am too, so he purposefully game me 3-1 odds on my money knowing I was in the BB and loved to see flops. He did wind up having AA and pretty much stacked me.

I guess for now on I just have to learn to think on a higher level for this guy, but thats where it gets tricky for me, because it seems like some opponents ur thinking first level some second and so on.

[BarryLyndon]

I'm not sure about thinking on a higher level this this guy, I think this is really a level 1 problem entirely and you shouldn't get too involved with levels when it comes to high blind structures like this with Ks9s in this spot.

There's another reason for not calling here, and that's CO's stack isn't really all that great. What is he calling with here with this stack? That's not even "high level," it's just a question of stack sizes.

Finally, if he's betting on the flop where there is no sidepot, then you can bet he has a BIG HAND, and by big, I mean that I don't even like a flop call getting 3:1. Good players don't [censored] around when there is an AI and no side pot. If you hit your flush, then, he's gonna know it, you're OOP, and the action will just slow down.

Barry