Big draw heads up (live 10/20)

Proofrock · #1 07-24-2007, 03:25 AM

Live 10/20 game with a half kill. I won the last pot and post the $15 kill UTG+1 (in this game kill acts last preflop). Folds to MP TAG who raises, I defend with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. My image is TAG.

Flop (5 SB): 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I check, Villain bets, I raise, Villain 3-bets, I 4-bet, Villain calls.

Turn (6.5BB): 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I bet, Villain insta-calls.

River (8.5BB): 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I start counting out chips, Villain beats me into the pot with his call, so I check, he says, "okay, then I bet," I fold.

Comments on flop and turn?

Is a river check raise here sexy or spewy?

DosXX · #2 07-24-2007, 04:47 AM

I think its very spewy. He has an overpair at worst and he's going to call.

sharpie · #3 07-24-2007, 08:23 AM

Pretty hard to misplay a monster draw like this on the flop, but do you think villain ever finds a fold with AJ/AT on blank turns and rivers? I assume you was going to bet if you hadn't caught the tell. Sexy is very unsexy here.

ProfessorBen · #4 07-24-2007, 10:47 AM

All streets seem fine to me.

KitCloudkicker · #5 07-24-2007, 11:55 AM

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I think its very spewy. He has an overpair at worst and he's going to call.

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you do realize that we're a substantial favorite on the flop against everything but AA, correct?

sharpie · #6 07-24-2007, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think its very spewy. He has an overpair at worst and he's going to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

you do realize that we're a substantial favorite on the flop against everything but AA, correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't realize he's talking about sexying the river, correct?

KitCloudkicker · #7 07-24-2007, 12:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think its very spewy. He has an overpair at worst and he's going to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

you do realize that we're a substantial favorite on the flop against everything but AA, correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't realize he's talking about sexying the river, correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

oops
[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

OP, yes a CR is bad.

mongidig · #8 07-24-2007, 03:41 PM

When the flop comes out you have to love your hand. However, you are not a substantial favorite against everything but AA you are a slight favorite. Absent any reads I would say that after the villian three bets the flop your equity in the hand has gone down and therefore I would just call down from there. Four betting the flop is not horrible but I don't think it is the best play.

DosXX · #9 07-24-2007, 04:03 PM

I think 4-betting makes the turn easier to play when you do hit your draw, just bet, your hand is now less obvious and you will get called down. If you call the 3-bet and lead a diamond or straight draw your hand is basically pegged.

ProfessorBen · #10 07-24-2007, 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When the flop comes out you have to love your hand. However, you are not a substantial favorite against everything but AA you are a slight favorite. Absent any reads I would say that after the villian three bets the flop your equity in the hand has gone down and therefore I would just call down from there. Four betting the flop is not horrible but I don't think it is the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement seems not thought out to me. 4-betting the flop may be marginal EV-wise, but it makes the turn remarkably easy to play with our increased fold equity. You bet/call, and there is little chance that villain will raise anyways.

I think the fact that it may reduce our action on the turn assuming we hit is a more legitimate concern. However, we are out of position, so my bigger concern is that the turn doesn't get checked through when we hit. That would be terrible.

An alternative line would be to call the 3-bet and donk the turn when we hit and check when we don't, but the only difference between this situation and 4-betting the flop is that we save a SB and don't get the chance to fold hands hands that are ahead such as AK-AT or hands that may be drawing to 4-6 outs such as KJ. I think this is a legitmate tradeoff to discuss but by the time villain has 3-bet the flop, the pot is big. I'm trying to win it, not save bets.