Live 1/3 PLO from Wynn

TempletonPeck · #1 02-22-2006, 06:51 AM

Very, very live game, playing 7-8 handed. Villain has approximately 700$, I cover. Villain knows me fairly well, knows that I am a very tight/winning NLHE player but has never played PLO with me.

Preflop, villain raises to 12, 2 calls, and I call with Ks Kh Qh Js.

Flop: 9s 10s Kc
I check, villain bets pot, both others fold, and the action is to me. Should I be raising the pot back to him, or is this a spot where I can call, and then go for check-raise on the turn? Any other good lines for this one?

bugstud · #2 02-22-2006, 08:39 AM

prob c/r pot and go from there

this wasn't last night was it?

TempletonPeck · #3 02-22-2006, 08:49 AM

Yes it was, but it was after the birthday boy left if that's you/you were with them.

jhall23 · #4 02-22-2006, 10:36 AM

With how deep you are I'd be hoping to build a pot here so I'd c/r too. If you only call the pot will be only ~150 on the turn and he can utilize position to keep the pot smaller and give you much less of a chance to double up.

poker_elmo · #5 02-22-2006, 11:20 AM

I think you should raise here. If he has the straight with an ace for the straight redraw or any kind of flush draw he might even reraise to get all in on the flop. That would be pretty.

Chimichonga · #6 02-22-2006, 11:33 AM

Unless he has both the made straight and a better flush draw, you are in a great spot.

C/R the flop for the full pot and the rest should take take care of itself.

TempletonPeck · #7 02-22-2006, 12:01 PM

My concern with check-raising for the full pot was of course that I might lose him, since this guy is smart enough to realise that even calling the flop means he's probably going to have to play for his stack.

I think it should be noted that calling the flop, pot turn, pot river gets him all-in as well. It's only about 2/3 pot on the end.

Chimichonga · #8 02-22-2006, 12:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My concern with check-raising for the full pot was of course that I might lose him, since this guy is smart enough to realise that even calling the flop means he's probably going to have to play for his stack.

I think it should be noted that calling the flop, pot turn, pot river gets him all-in as well. It's only about 2/3 pot on the end.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it all depends on what type of hand you put this guy on, but I think your river line sucks.

If he is smart enough to know that a call from you means that he is playing for his stack on the flop, then what is he going to call with on the river that you beat? Unless the guy is the type to go crazy with middle/bottom set, two pair or a second/third nut flush draw then I think your line is fundamentally flawed.

Raising the flop not only helps get your money in with the best of it, but it also ties your opponent to the pot and may help you get action should the boat outs hit, depending on your opponent and his holdings.

Spellmen · #9 02-22-2006, 12:16 PM

The question is, if he has the same hand as you now (straight), will he pay off if you hit your fh or flush? Probably not. You need to get money in here, not so much to protect your hand, but to make sure he gets his money in the pot before a scare card hits. This is probably one of the only situations where I might minraise, hopefully he comes over the top and you can get all your money in, but you at least can build the pot a little because I can't see someone in a live game folding a flush draw or top 2/set here if they have already potted it

TempletonPeck · #10 02-22-2006, 12:43 PM

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Depends on what type of hand you put this guy on, but I think your river line sucks.

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I was just offering this up as an alternative of getting him all in, and the only reason I used the 2/3 number was because... that's all the money he'll have left!
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If he is smart enough to know that a call from you means that he is playing for his stack on the flop, then what is he going to call with on the river that you beat? Unless the guy is the type to go crazy with middle/bottom set, two pair or a second/third nut flush draw then I think your line is fundamentally flawed.

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Even for him to be overplaying a set/2 pair, what are we hoping that he raised with preflop for him to have top-two, or middle/bottom set, or a flush draw. QJ1010? From an EP raiser? or... QJ99? I mean these are the sort of hands he needs to have for me to reasonably expect to be able to get a significant portion of his stack in the middle aren't they? They don't seem like EP raising hands to me. I'd think he be happy to get all in with something like AAQJ with spades, but I'd like to be able to get all-in when he has another hand too.

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Raising the flop not only helps get your money in with the best of it, but it also ties your opponent to the pot and may help you get action should the boat outs hit, depending on your opponent and his holdings.

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I generally agree with this sentiment, but in this case it feels like it might be a better spot to let him bluff off chips, or something other than fastplaying at least.

Thanks for the replies everyone.