Couple of possibly standard hands

johndenver · #1 05-09-2007, 12:36 AM

new to 6max, couple hands, probably standard, thoughts?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP calls.

Turn: (2.70 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (4.70 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB raises, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, MP calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, MP calls.

River: (15 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

milesdyson · #2 05-09-2007, 12:42 AM

call turn in hand 2. probably should fold river there too. shold probably just call the flop too.

jba · #3 05-09-2007, 12:49 AM

hand 1 is ok, but check the flop a lot if the game is aggressive.

hand 2, ok kind of a trainwreck. street by street:

preflop: usually I raise here, but whatever, overlimping is fine.
flop: good.
turn: very close. I like your line of thought, but you have to recognize you are a big dog to win unimproved. you can't put in any more money unimproved after overrepresenting your hand so much. the donker usually has two pair here.
river: I think you're about a 17-1 dog to even have the second best hand. you're almost always in third place here. pretty much impossible that you're winning. the call is really bad.

Oink · #4 05-09-2007, 06:07 AM

Hand 1 is fine. I often check/raise the flop. Almost always will it go check, check, bet (with any 2). This way you can protect your hand and get value.

Hand 2.

Preflop is between raising and calling. I dont like raising unless the blinds are tight and you think you can win UI against the 2 limpers.

Raising the flop for value is marginal but I like it.

The turn is good IMO. The pot is huge and you have to protect your hand against overcards. The donk by MP is a naked 8 often enough. Also, when you are behind you have plenty of outs.

By the river you are screwed. SB called 2 cold on the turn and MP overcalls the river (so much for the "MP has 8x" theory). Maybe 1 in 50 you will see SB having a missed draw and MP having 6x. But not 1 in 18.

Kvacke · #5 05-09-2007, 07:10 AM

Hand 1 is okey I think. Against some tricky/loose/aggro players (often bad) I just check the turn here and let them bluff, becouse the board is dry and if he have a nine or King u are behind and I can see those players raising the turn as bluff (even in this small pot). However at this 0.25/0.5 he may just be peeling with anything so the betline is prolly fine.

Hand 2:
I think preflopp and flop is okey.
On the turn I think you should just call, its seems likely that u are chasing. However I dont think it raising is that bad in this pot, as long as you check it down behind UI on the river. On the river it looks like a fold even at this odds becouse u are like never good.

guenttrs · #6 05-09-2007, 07:17 AM

Hand 1: I like a flop check oop more. If UTG bets u can fold,
if MP bets i would put him on a steal and raise.
As played i would c/c the river to induce a bluff, but dont have to pay better hands.

Hand 2: The turnraise is a tough decision. If u can fear away some players its great, but i dont believe u will be ahead often enough to make this a value raise. If someone 3bets u can fold imho.
The river is a fold. I#m not a fan of riverfolds in big pots but cant see Hero often enough ahead.

Oink · #7 05-09-2007, 07:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I like a flop check oop more. If UTG bets u can fold,
if MP bets i would put him on a steal and raise.
As played i would c/c the river to induce a bluff, but dont have to pay better hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

c/f'ing the flop to an UTG bet is way to weak tight.

Hero will be looked up by a lot of worse hands on the river. There arent many missed draws that will bluff, but a lot of Ax, 4x and lower pp's hands that call.

[ QUOTE ]
If someone 3bets u can fold imho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding to a 3-bet on the turn in hand 2 with an OESD is horrible. I assume you missed the straight draw

guenttrs · #8 05-09-2007, 08:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I like a flop check oop more. If UTG bets u can fold,
if MP bets i would put him on a steal and raise.
As played i would c/c the river to induce a bluff, but dont have to pay better hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

c/f'ing the flop to an UTG bet is way to weak tight.

Hero will be looked up by a lot of worse hands on the river. There arent many missed draws that will bluff, but a lot of Ax, 4x and lower pp's hands that call.

[ QUOTE ]
If someone 3bets u can fold imho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding to a 3-bet on the turn in hand 2 with an OESD is horrible. I assume you missed the straight draw

[/ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:
After some thinking a can follow your argument about heros river bet. I'm still in the c/f camp to a utg bet on the flop. I hate playing oop with an dominated hand. (any king or better 9 kills us here).

Hand 2:
I dont miss the oesd. My thinking was:
We hold a weak onecard oesd. IMHO in best case we have to split the pot when our straight hits. So our fair share of the pot is one quarter of the half. But your right we have still the pot odds to call a turn 3bet.

Oink · #9 05-09-2007, 09:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
We hold a weak onecard oesd. IMHO in best case we have to split the pot when our straight hits. So our fair share of the pot is one quarter of the half. But your right we have still the pot odds to call a turn 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be carefull with that line of thinking. A turn 3-bet is easily 2 pairs, a set or even a combo of 1 pair and a straight draw. Yes Hero will be drawing to a chop sometimes, but more often than not he will have 8 outs to a win.

kaby · #10 05-09-2007, 10:14 AM

I agree with the general advice in this thread but folding the river in hand 2 as played is bad. Even if a fold in this hand is good, it's still bad advice because hero is going to do it in worse spots imho.

0.25/0.50 => 17:1 on top pair = call should be hero's default line imho, and he needs more experience to even consider folding in such a situation. Sure he may loose half a bet here but he's gonna throw away a pot way more than 1 time in 30. Oh and btw SB pbb doesn't realize he needs <insert number here> outs to coldcall here. I think SB has 7x like always and a flush like never here :P