NDE Near Death Experience and REM

[luckyme]

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Today, new evidence is published that backs the idea that the near-death experience is a biological experience, rather than anything to do with a larger, spiritual dimension, a glimpse of heaven, or the existence of the soul.

People who have had near- death experiences are able to slip into dream sleep more easily than those who have not had one, according to a study published in Neurology, the journal of the American Academy of Neurology.


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From a Telegraph article .
Ascribing mystical meaning to personal biological experiences seems as silly to me as the 'face on cookie' ones. Good to see some decent research is going on, this is the type of area that some borderline religious-oriented people can appreciate and perhaps encourage them to a more realist view of the world.

The disposition to experience it by the REM connection is the interesting aspect. Well, besides the careful 'USA politically correct' statement -
"He added that a biological explanation was "spiritually neutral". "We, as neurologists, address the how of these experiences coming about but not the why," he said."

I guess funding is an issue in Kentucky, else why comment on such an irrelevant topic. Would an engineer in brooklynn studying how an airplane propeller cuts off your head add, "It's spiritually neutral, we study the how but not the why."

luckyme

[Matt R.]

The link to the Telegraph article is broken, fyi.

I did a google search and found the article, and it was pretty brief. Did you by chance read the original research article?

I wiki'd near death experience, I guess in part because some of these findings mentioned in the telegraph article seemed pretty obvious -- IMO, of course any perceptual experience will be rooted in the brain in some way. From the wiki article, it appears that a lot of "NDE's" occur when the person is clinically dead -- i.e. in the absence of brain activity. Did he touch on this at all? Also, from my limited knowlodge of the subject, it appears that NDE's are extremely different perceptually than ordinary dreams. Heightened awareness is reported, as well as logical thought processes -- all while the brain is significantly impaired or even has zero EEG activity. I'm curious if the professor touched on this at all in the original research.

BTW, he probably attached his politically correct statement so people would not take his findings as evidence against certain aspects of spirituality. I know, who would do such a thing, right?

[Edit: Err, by "obvious" I guess I meant I always thought that any experience of this type would have some measurable effect on the brain. Not saying the research is pointless -- it is interesting that they found a link between dreaming and NDE.]

[FortunaMaximus]

I think you'd need more than just brainwave activity to distinguish the differences.

Yes, "spiritually neutral" is quite a loaded statement, though, which would imply if people were to ascribe supernatural aspects to it, he wouldn't differ. I'm going by the posts.

It's not PC as much as a nod to the quirkiness that is still being determined about how the brain works. That beveined, glutinous mass in our skulls is simply the most awesome product of evolution, and I think it'll be a long, long time before we are able to determine exactly what it does and what it is capable of.

I've had 2 personally, one as a toddler, one, um, that was a near-OD about 10 years ago, give or take. And perceptually, I suppose you do realize on a subconscious level that the ultimate consequences don't matter. Nothing mystical about it though. Just weirdness.

I'm not certain that zero-EEG activity is indication of irrecoverable brain death, although it needs continual nourishment. Perhaps the brain damage from a stoppage or deprivation of nourishment merely causes organic damage and loss of refernce loci (recall that I have the position that memory is holographical and mind is a large-scale quantum effect.) Whether the whole quantum set can be reproduced to a degree of accuracy that would not be noticed by the individual... That'd be awesome, and, still, not at all mystical.

Fascinating, even for pragmatists in lab coats.

Clarke's Third Law: <font color="purple">Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.</font>

[vhawk01]

[luckyme]

Thanks, here's the article Telegraph article

No, never did run across the original papers,

luckyme

[FortunaMaximus]

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Awesome cast too.

[luckyme]

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Yes, "spiritually neutral" is quite a loaded statement, though, which would imply if people were to ascribe supernatural aspects to it, he wouldn't differ. I'm going by the posts.

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I don't remember any science courses, books, articles until recently having to cover their political butt so much by stating spiritual neutrality ( reminds me of the Inquisition days of heliocentrism). You research, test, report, make some tie-ins to other knowledge in that topic and move on.

Iac, it's only his opinion that it's spiritually neutral and it's not his area of expertise any more than my or my neighbors kid. Such discoveries are never a problem for the spirit-people anyway, they just claim the next level down as their territory. You can never take away 'the NDE-spirit-did-it' just because you know the process involved.

It's like the "one-with-the-universe" experience that can be had with meditation. Now we can achieve it with a magnetic coil on the side of the head doesn't prevent the spirit-people from claiming theirs is the 'real' event or whatever they want.

luckyme

[madnak]

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From the wiki article, it appears that a lot of "NDE's" occur when the person is clinically dead -- i.e. in the absence of brain activity.

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Clinical death is just respiratory and vascular failure. Some brain activity may continue to exist for some time thereafter. Moreover, it's not exactly possible for anyone to describe exactly when they had these experiences. Maybe it was right after resuscitation.

In terms of research, I think there are two other studies that apply here (not enough time to look them up). One indicated a release of cannabinoids and other psychoactive substances at death. So "tripping out" would make sense to some degree. The other if I remember put people in some sort of flight training thing to subject their bodies to heavy stress (I guess astronauts and the like had some strange experiences?), and the people had NDEs.

Someone else probably knows more and can clarify.

[madnak]

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Awesome cast too.

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Yeah, but what's the deal with Jack Bauer?

[FortunaMaximus]

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Awesome cast too.

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Yeah, but what's the deal with Jack Bauer?

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Multi-level Canadian parody, I'm guessing.