Attributes of a good player?

dedmoney · #1 10-03-2006, 02:26 PM

What attributes do you guys think make the best poker players?

Obviously things like being able to do the numbers analysis are important, but my question stems from this one guy.

He's about 45, been playing for a long time. He's one of these guys who plays all on guts and never on analytical type process. The guy has no concept of theory or advanced strategies or anything taught in our lovely poker boooks.

One night I said in passing about a hand I had and when I said 'pot odds,' he looked at me like I said 'I cut off my own penis and ate it for dinner.' But he wins.

We play probably twice a month, small 5-10 person tournaments, winner take all, and he's winning at probably a fifty percent clip. The others we pplay with vary from straight superfish to pretty good, knowledgeable players. It drives me nuts.

So I got to thinking what are the traits that make this guy ''good.' I'm more thinking about skills from other areas that have translated over well to poker, like reading people and other type things.

Dementia · #2 10-03-2006, 02:35 PM

You could probably play limit pretty much by the book, always making your decision based on pot odds/equity/position etc and do alright, but in NL you need to have other gears because the fact is there are people like this guy who will look to exploit you, play aggressively, always on a hunch of his. I've read a book or two, but honestly I play based on feel and my own reasoning, and it's worked out. Each person has their own style, just gotta make it work for you.

dedmoney · #3 10-03-2006, 02:49 PM

So what attributes do you have that have translated over to NL well?

I don't play limit by the book, I'm pretty aggresive in tournaments, but always switch up the gears to keep people guessing.

Dementia · #4 10-03-2006, 03:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So what attributes do you have that have translated over to NL well?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a poker player, so of course number one I'm going to say my reads. They really come in handy playing NL, because you can execute based on them more effectively. For me the most enjoyable part of playing NL is just putting pressure on people. It's something I love to do, and it's helped me win a lot of pots I shouldn't of. I also feel good about interpreting body language. When I'm playing online, I do play a bit more grounded and just watch bet sizes/pot odds and stuff like that. Overall my strongest suits are hand reading/aggression.

RydenStoompala · #5 10-03-2006, 04:51 PM

Whatever attributes that lead a particular personality to the highest earn rate.

For some it's quiet contemplation, while others are loud and obnoxious. Some appear intelligent and others have you believing they'd lose a spelling contest against a cat. The street smarts, number sense, card sense and good reactions under stress are all needed but they are in different combinations for various personalities. I personally think that a good dose of psycopath (complete lack of empathy) helps, but that's just because I recognize others when I see them. You have to be able to pick your games and then pick your spots.

The most important attribute may be the abilility to learn from experience.

Split Suit · #6 10-03-2006, 05:05 PM

hey OP...u go to Syracuse University? if so...PM me and we shud get a game up...assuming you dont already have one

Ocho · #7 10-03-2006, 05:20 PM

Check out Ace on The River. There's a nice list of 20 (I think) attributes of winning players.

I don't know if I agree with the order, but it's a nice list with some explanation.

jjpokertime · #8 10-04-2006, 08:57 AM

My grandfather was a winning poker player and taught me to play, and he always stressed patience is the key.

You have got to pick your spots. By being patient it is easy to lay down when your beat and wait for a better spot. If you get anxious about chips you will try to win them and make mistakes, thinking I got to win this pot, but this pot is not for you, you have just the type of second best hand to pay off the winner.

Amarillo slim talks of waiting for spots and laying down quads when he knew his opponent had a straight flush, Amarillo said "I had to wait for a better spot, quads are'nt worth 2cents when a straight flush is out".

You must wait for good spots sometimes you raise on the river with aces sometime you fold, experience is essential. Without patience you will blow all your money and have no chance to gather experience.

There are of course many other important qualites that I didn't mention, such as self-discipline, concentration, not becoming bored and staying focussed, not worrying about losing, detaching from loses, High self-esteem to believe you are the best and are going to win, Being healthy so you you are comfortable at the table, Having a good memory to remember how opponents have acted previously. and many more but essentially all the things that make a normal person function normally.

PantsOnFire · #9 10-04-2006, 02:08 PM

Well, first of all, it's very possible this guy has the concept of pot odds, shutting out drawing hands, calling drawing hands for the right price etc. It just may be he can't express it or doesn't know the terminology.

Doyle Brunson has said he can beat a lot of players without even looking at his cards. This guy may have the experience to be able to know when to press and when to get out based solely on the actions of the other players, regardless of the cards he is holding. So outs and pot odds and drawing hands don't mean as much as figuring the other guy is weak and making a bet that will cause him to fold.

It sure would be nice to have BOTH the reading skills and the analytical skills.

I honestly believe a lot of us, myself included, let the analytical side block out what the gut side is saying. This is something I am working on and it is not easy.

For example, to mix up my play I will call turn bets with a slim draw. But if I know the guy I am playing against, my call may make him very nervous. So even if I don't hit the river, I can still take the pot away. I really have to know the guy I am up against for this to be a +EV type of scenario.

So against the odds, I may call a gutshot or 3 outer or something else that is normally foldable on the turn if I add in some factors like very sure implied odds, likelyhood of winning a bluff regardless of the river, likelyhood of winning a bluff with a scare river, what hands my opponent could have and if he is capable of folding the river, what he thinks about my play, etc.