|
|
#1
12-31-2006, 10:19 AM
|
|||
|
|||
J6s button hand
40/80 game, good game, i haven't won a hand in 2.5 hours and haven't shown down a hand in probably 2. not sure if they even care or not. villian in this hand is generally weak passive.
2 whatever/bad players limp in mp and lmp. i overlimp on the button with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. sb completes and villian checks in the bb. flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] sb leads. bb calls. the 2 limpers fold and i call. turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] sb checks. bb bets. i show a momentary pause and raise. sb folds. bb tanks and calls. river: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] bb checks. i show a momentary pause and bet. 
|
|
#2
12-31-2006, 11:31 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
i don't like the river. i can't even tell if you're valuebetting or bluffing. maybe you weren't sure either?
and i think folding preflop would be slightly better.
|
|
#3
12-31-2006, 01:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
preflop is significantly wrong. wait until it's J8s or K6s min. sorry that's not fun, but it's true.
the river bet is wrong. no one will fold a bigger flush and he might somehow be full, but irrationally afraid of quads. and your bet is not made up for the times youre called by A high and smaller flushes. now people will come on here and argue that bb will sometimes fold a bigger flush but you and i both now how sick good those games are there so it's just never happening. they all play like theyre completely brain dead.
|
|
#4
12-31-2006, 03:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
[ QUOTE ]
the river bet is wrong. no one will fold a bigger flush and he might somehow be full, but irrationally afraid of quads. and your bet is not made up for the times youre called by A high and smaller flushes. [/ QUOTE ] how wrong is wrong? like a full bb wrong? .25bb's wrong? obviously i never expect him to fold a boat, though i bet the river thinking there was a significant chance he actually has a flush and i have, like the 3rd nut flush.
|
|
#5
12-31-2006, 03:56 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
[ QUOTE ]
preflop is significantly wrong. wait until it's J8s or K6s min. sorry that's not fun, but it's true. the river bet is wrong. no one will fold a bigger flush and he might somehow be full, but irrationally afraid of quads. and your bet is not made up for the times youre called by A high and smaller flushes. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with all this. Not sure how to quantify the river mistake but my visceral sense is that it would be north of half a BB. Of the two errors, the preflop call is the bigger of the two.
|
|
#6
12-31-2006, 04:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] preflop is significantly wrong. wait until it's J8s or K6s min. sorry that's not fun, but it's true. the river bet is wrong. no one will fold a bigger flush and he might somehow be full, but irrationally afraid of quads. and your bet is not made up for the times youre called by A high and smaller flushes. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with all this. Not sure how to quantify the river mistake but my visceral sense is that it would be north of half a BB. Of the two errors, the preflop call is the bigger of the two. [/ QUOTE ] IMO, there is no way that if the river error is a .5BB error that the preflop error is larger than that. Yeah, there are arguments for compounding errors but there's no way that overlimping this OTB is going to be larger than a 1SB error. I would check river, and I think preflop isn't really worth mentioning. I'd fold. If mike's cutoff is J8s or K6s there's no way limping J6s is a "significant" error. Rob
|
|
#7
12-31-2006, 04:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, there is no way that if the river error is a .5BB error that the preflop error is larger than that. Yeah, there are arguments for compounding errors but there's no way that overlimping this OTB is going to be larger than a 1SB error. [/ QUOTE ] Good point. The compounding issue is what I meant, but did not explain clearly. In relation to the size of the pot and the slight possibility that a bigger hand will fold the river, I'd consider the river bet to be not as great a proportional error. Another reason I'm not crazy about the river is that after not winning a hand for two hours, I don't want to show down J6. I'll be looking for opportunities to represent a hand and snatch a pot here soon against someone. Preferably they won't be reflecting on the J6 I recently overplayed.
|
|
#8
12-31-2006, 04:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
I make a loose call like this about once in every 300 hands or so. More experience players say its wrong, but I don't really care: it makes things more interesting and I doubt if anybody knows for sure that it really is -ev.
As for the river, my guess is you can discount him having played a better flush like that and now deciding to fold it enough so that you are mostly trying to value bet. But since there are way more combos of hands with a 3 or 9 in it than hands with a smaller flush, you should just check.
|
|
#9
12-31-2006, 05:15 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
[ QUOTE ]
how wrong is wrong? like a full bb wrong? .25bb's wrong? obviously i never expect him to fold a boat, though i bet the river thinking there was a significant chance he actually has a flush and i have, like the 3rd nut flush. [/ QUOTE ] Third nut flush with two pair on the board--really, you aren't going to be called by a weaker hand, are you?
|
|
#10
12-31-2006, 05:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: J6s button hand
[ QUOTE ]
Good point. The compounding issue is what I meant, but did not explain clearly. In relation to the size of the pot and the slight possibility that a bigger hand will fold the river, I'd consider the river bet to be not as great a proportional error. [/ QUOTE ] i have no idea what you're talking about. do you?
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
