Pushing a draw on flop - line check

[danicalifornia]

No reads on villain, first orbit at the table

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($25)
Hero ($22.05)
Button ($13)
SB ($33.45)
BB ($27.80)
UTG ($24.65)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $1</font>, Hero calls $1, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $0.90, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($3.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $10</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $21.05</font>, SB calls $11.05.

Turn: ($47.35) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: ($47.35) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $47.35

[LayZ]

Fine if you don't mind the variance, you have a bunch of outs (probably). All you don't have is fold equity as SB has already told you he isn't going to fold.

[Sweir]

At best you have 14 outs (that is if villian doesnt have something like AK/KQ or a set which are all possible). With 14 outs you will win ~50% of the time. If you have no FE then your push is getting 2-1 odds. This makes this play +EV, but no neccecarily the most +EV play to make, especially considering that you might well have some "dirty outs". If you call the $10 raise getting ~5-1 pot odds then you easily have the odds to draw, even if the aces and queens arent outs, and if you hit your hand then you will most likely stack villian so your implied odds are good too. You also have position so you may be able to get a free card if checked to.

So, I would 3bet PF, raise the flop to $6+ and call the 3bet from SB.

[bozzer]

In position I think just calling the 3bet is better.

[LateFlag]

I've read some other threads where people advocate shoving with hands like this (pair + fd in this case, oesd + fd in others), and I have some general questions about this line.

In this particular hand, I understand why Hero doesn't push after SB's 3-bet (no FE). Suppose instead though that Hero raised AI the first time. How would that line compare to his actual $6 raise? (Keeping in mind that we wouldn't know the SB woke up with a hand this time).

If you don't raise AI here, when would you? Is this mainly an "out of position" line?

[Sweir]

[ QUOTE ]

In this particular hand, I understand why Hero doesn't push after SB's 3-bet (no FE). Suppose instead though that Hero raised AI the first time. How would that line compare to his actual $6 raise? (Keeping in mind that we wouldn't know the SB woke up with a hand this time).

If you don't raise AI here, when would you? Is this mainly an "out of position" line?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising all-in rather than to ~$6 or a bit more is pretty pointless as you arent going to get much more FE. You have to have a balance between FE and size of bet, if you think villian is 10% more likely to fold to a push than a PSB and you are having to put twice the amount of chips for the push then it is clearly better to just make a PSB.

The right time to push a combo draw is if your stack is small enough that you arent going to make a huge overbet, and you think you have enough FE to make it more profitable than just calling.

[bozzer]

the key advantage of pushing with your big draw is that you get to see turn and river. If you have 50% or better equity on the flop pushing is not exploitable so that's cool.

you may feel however that you are willing to risk missing the turn and having to fold the hand. there are certain advantages to this, like decreasing variance but still getting paid off if you hit. being in position having raised the flop makes it quite likely you will be able to see a free card, often making a non-push with a big draw the better play for me.

[Sir Winalot]

Raise to 9, getting it in here is totally fine.