Value betting in 5CD

[RatFink]

Let me preface this by saying I'm a long-time limit hold'em player so value betting is pretty high up there on my "things to do" when I play.

But in 5CD, I feel somewhat uncomfortable in identifying when is a good post-draw value bet opportunity. That makes me play a Tight-Aggressive pre-draw game, and a Tight-Passive post-draw game. For all I know, that might be a good strategy.

I've been analyzing my play and I just see a lot of pre-draw raising and then checking behind post-draw and it just seems wrong. But I can't see the pot size meriting any Bet-Fold lines.

What guidelines do you use to determine when it is worth a value bet post-draw?

Obviously there is no point in betting unless you expect to be called by a worse hand. So betting Aces Up when checked to by a 1 draw is pretty clear, as they may call with their Jacks up. But I'm sort of a loss here and want to strengthen up my game.

[DOMIT]

Yeah, Mason definitely advises value betting a high two pair vs a 1-card draw. You have to keep track of the player regarding whether or not you call a check-raise (I've seen players ck-raise with air on the 1/2 tables, so you have to call sometimes.. use some kind of gaming theory).

I value bet a strong two pair (JJs-up or better) vs a 3-card unless it's a strong player that I know will fit the classic desciption of "will only call if can beat you or raise you.."; then, there's usually no point in betting.

However, there are times that you need to steal (just like in HE): You're folded to on the button w/ an Ace-high flush draw.. raise! Bet regardless post. Of course using this type of tactic, you assuredly (sp?) need to value bet more (if you tend to use it more.. I usually only will do it with at least A-high flush draw.. but if you open up more, you'll need to value bet more if people are calling your rivers when you've missed; they'll call more with unimproved pairs hoping you were on a steal and missed).

[Biggle10]

I'm more apt to value bet if I improve.

Situation #1.
I'm on button and open raise JJ. I'm called in the BB by a very tight-passive player who draws 3. Hero draws 3. Hero improves to 2 pair and value bets when villain checks. Villain calls with lone pair very frequently.

Situation #2.
Hero opens JJ-up on the button. Villain calls and draws 3. Hero draws 1 and doesn't improve. I'm more willing to check behind here as the nature of my hand is less concealed and BB is likely only going to call with AA-up. This changes if villain is willing to call with lone pairs against a 1 card draw.

[DOMIT]

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I'm more apt to value bet if I improve.

Situation #2.
Hero opens JJ-up on the button. Villain calls and draws 3. Hero draws 1 and doesn't improve. I'm more willing to check behind here

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But as you stated:
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This changes if villain is willing to call with lone pairs against a 1 card draw.

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This is often the case in low-limit; epecially if they hold AA. Once again, depends on the opponent

Also, once again, if you have been stealing on draws and you legitimately have 2 pair, I'd still bet perhaps 99's up and higher. Otherwise, you're just screaming "steal" when you bet (as it's 11-1 to improve on 2pair, they're going to call more).

[brian1175]

I think you have to be carefull value beting 2 pair ALOT. I see alot of donks bet their 2 pair. If I make trips I will always check raise them. You know they will bet out 2 pair so you raise them...if the don't bet then there was a good chance they would of folded the hand to a bet anyway. This will also keep players guessing and make them less likely to bet into you, giving you cheaper showdowns. Also I usually check call if someone takes 1, unless it was cold called then I would put them on 2 pair and definitly reraise or bet into with mid to high trips.