stud8: question about playing pairs vs open Ace

[TStoneMBD]

say an A raises, its folded to you and the only player behind you is the bringin which is a 3. you know that the A is raising 100% of his hands, what is the very worst split pair you should be playing in this spot? what is the very worst concealed pair with baby up card youll play?

unfortunately, we dont have a pokerstove calculator for stud8 where we can find out the equity of JJ vs every combination of Axx. this scenario seems to come up alot and i dont know what to do, but folding split kings to a 100% raise by an up ace seems like its wrong.

[Central Limit]

Here is a quote from a similar discussion of Stud High Only from 1/26/06.

"The following hands have a 50% or greater chance to win against an ace with random cards (1,000,000 simulated hands, assuming you both go to the river):

A Ten-high 3-Straight
47T suited
Any pair (22x is 50%)
Ace with two cards Ten or higher (AJT offsuit is 50.11%)


Hope that helps. "

[HOWMANY]

I always fold, but like I said in the thread I started earlier I am sure it is wrong against a lot of people. I am starting to reraise A completes with a lot more of my 3 low straightish type hands lately because so many people seem to be completing from pretty early position with an A up and all kinds of random hole cards, I am thinking about doing it more with my smaller split pair+straightflush kickers as well which I normally fold. I don't really know how much your mathematical hand value changes from something like 6s5s5d to KK9r. If he has Aces you need to make two pair no matter what, but he can accidentally make like 8s up or something with his hand if he has crap to beat your 5s or 6s up, but 556 obviously has the low/flush prospects as well. I am already confused as to whether to play the hand at all, how to play it is even more difficult.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
say an A raises, its folded to you and the only player behind you is the bringin which is a 3. you know that the A is raising 100% of his hands, what is the very worst split pair you should be playing in this spot? what is the very worst concealed pair with baby up card youll play?

unfortunately, we dont have a pokerstove calculator for stud8 where we can find out the equity of JJ vs every combination of Axx. this scenario seems to come up alot and i dont know what to do, but folding split kings to a 100% raise by an up ace seems like its wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know how helpful this'll be but I ran some sims on PokerCalculator and got these numbers against a completely random Ace.
Below is the approximate pot equity for the given hand vs. A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]xx with a dead 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (bring-in):

K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x: 58.2%
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]: 55.2%
J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x: 55.6%
J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]: 54%
9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x: 53%
8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x: 56.7%

6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]: 55%
7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]: 46.6%
3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]: 58.3%

[Andy B]

I basically always fold. The problem is that even if the Ace has garbage underneath, he can still force a lot of folding errors ("errors" in a fundamental theorem sense) as the hand progresses.

[Micturition Man]

[ QUOTE ]
say an A raises, its folded to you and the only player behind you is the bringin which is a 3. you know that the A is raising 100% of his hands, what is the very worst split pair you should be playing in this spot? what is the very worst concealed pair with baby up card youll play?

unfortunately, we dont have a pokerstove calculator for stud8 where we can find out the equity of JJ vs every combination of Axx. this scenario seems to come up alot and i dont know what to do, but folding split kings to a 100% raise by an up ace seems like its wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually you can get these equities from PokerCalculator, which is a very useful tool because it lets you specify a less than complete hand.

(JJ versus a random A is a 55/45 favorite.)

There was a thread about this just yesterday.

IMO if you really think the A is raising 100% you have play any decent pair (say 99+, or 88- with a baby kicker). Even 99 is 53/47 here.

I also think logically there are a lot of reasons to favor a reraise over a call, at least with your stronger pairs.

For one thing even if the random A hand catches a low card on 4th, you still hold approximately the same equity edge as before, so the strategy of peeling 3rd and folding when the A catches a low card doesn't really make sense.

[jkinetic]

Yo,

I played with you fairly recently at Commerce, I was the Asian cat that crossed booked with Ali in Omaha only in the HO or HOE game we were in.

I would fold most of the time, unless the A was running bad and squeezing every river. Also goes without saying that if a dead ace or two folded on third, makes the play much better.

When it comes to Stud 8, I generally don't try to outplay or make fancy plays as much as in holdem. I generally want to play Stud 8 against really bad players that are either holdem players or stud high players that I am almost always freerolling.

On a side note, you have a fan club at Commerce. I didn't know who you were until some older women were talking about you being some TV superstar and how you were quite the dish. So, if you ever go busto I am sure you can hit up some rich milfs in LA.

[TStoneMBD]

always good to have a plan b yo

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a quote from a similar discussion of Stud High Only from 1/26/06.

"The following hands have a 50% or greater chance to win against an ace with random cards (1,000,000 simulated hands, assuming you both go to the river):

A Ten-high 3-Straight
47T suited
Any pair (22x is 50%)
Ace with two cards Ten or higher (AJT offsuit is 50.11%)


Hope that helps. "

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this part of the discussion help or hurt us in a split pot game? I'm not sure that I want to take a Ten-high 3-straight against an Ace here.