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#1
11-18-2006, 09:36 AM
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Live Play Checkup
Hi all ... played some live B&M last night at Turning Stone ... $4/$8 ... both villains in this pot sat down within the last orbit and haven't seen any action by me, nor have I seen any by them ...
Player in MP calls, folds round to SB who calls, and I raise in BB with AQ off ... both players call Flop comes 4 7 4 ... SB checks, I bet, both players call ... turn is a 9, completing rainbow I believe ... What should be my betting to checking ratio be here, having air on a dry board between two people calling preflop raise and also calling flop bet .... Thanks 
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#2
11-18-2006, 10:37 AM
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Re: Live Play Checkup
Important distinction here is your opponents limped preflop and called the raise back to them, which is very different from cold-calling. I think the pfr is debatable in a small pot oop to the limper.
I would guess you are ahead maybe 18-20% of the time here and shouldn't pay/bet to draw at the river against these likely calling stations.
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#3
11-18-2006, 11:56 AM
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Re: Live Play Checkup
What makes you say we're ahead 18 - 20% ... I'd say we're ahead more than that, and my default play should be to bet again ... the 9 is a relatively safe card for me ... I think if one or both players call a turn bet then obviously I'm done with betting / calling for the hand unless I hit on the river ... just trying to get used to what people call down in live environment, it's been quite some time
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#4
11-18-2006, 01:59 PM
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Re: Live Play Checkup
Live, I don't see how you can track any bet to check ratio. Both you and your new opponents are guessing what you have because you raised out of the BB and they are new to the table.
Rather than try to keep track of any ratio, I tend to think in terms of the image I want to maintain for future use and I want to learn something about the playing style of my new opponents. Mixing it up is a good idea, but all things being equal, I would want to test the resolve of new players by betting the turn. Their reaction to the bet and the ultimate outcome of the hand gives me insight into the type of player I now have at the table. My concern with a new player is the player more than the cards. All things being equal, neither side really knowing anything about the other, I want to be seen as the aggressor, not the cautious player. I bet the turn.
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#6
11-18-2006, 02:30 PM
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Re: Live Play Checkup
[ QUOTE ]
Live, I don't see how you can track any bet to check ratio. Both you and your new opponents are guessing what you have because you raised out of the BB and they are new to the table. Rather than try to keep track of any ratio, I tend to think in terms of the image I want to maintain for future use and I want to learn something about the playing style of my new opponents. Mixing it up is a good idea, but all things being equal, I would want to test the resolve of new players by betting the turn. Their reaction to the bet and the ultimate outcome of the hand gives me insight into the type of player I now have at the table. My concern with a new player is the player more than the cards. All things being equal, neither side really knowing anything about the other, I want to be seen as the aggressor, not the cautious player. I bet the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I'd bet too. You might be good, it might get you a free showdown (I wouldn't bet on the river UI) and best of all it might give you the image of a maniac at the table. There's nothing better for a tight aggressive player to be seen as a maniac. Live many people just remember their first impression and consider betting with less than top pair to be maniacal.
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#7
11-18-2006, 02:46 PM
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Re: Live Play Checkup
Raising preflop is standard. I think you should check the turn here almost always. The c-bet on the flop is fine, but when you get two callers on the flop you will have to improve more often than not to win the hand. If you had a read that both opponents are loose you could bet the turn since the probability of a non pair flop peel from those players is a lot higher.
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#8
11-18-2006, 04:27 PM
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Re: Live Play Checkup
[ QUOTE ]
Live, I don't see how you can track any bet to check ratio. Both you and your new opponents are guessing what you have because you raised out of the BB and they are new to the table. Rather than try to keep track of any ratio, I tend to think in terms of the image I want to maintain for future use and I want to learn something about the playing style of my new opponents. Mixing it up is a good idea, but all things being equal, I would want to test the resolve of new players by betting the turn. Their reaction to the bet and the ultimate outcome of the hand gives me insight into the type of player I now have at the table. My concern with a new player is the player more than the cards. All things being equal, neither side really knowing anything about the other, I want to be seen as the aggressor, not the cautious player. I bet the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Fishy, thanks for this input ... I wasn't necessarily looking for keeping track of ratios, but your suggestions regarding image and how the other players react to certain situations is exactly what I was looking for. I checked turn, river was a T ... everyone checked around ... SB had KT and MP had AT ...
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