A2s, Turn bet OK?

TitanFan · #1 07-15-2006, 03:10 PM

Ok so here I have just sat down, no stats on anybody yet, so I assume its a typical party table. Two people limp so I limp. Pot is huge on the flop so I call with overcard, and BD flushdraw and BD straight (granted its only a 1 card straight).

The turn I pick up the nut flush draw, straight draw, and I still have the overcard . . . granted its not a very good overcard given the board, but I bet out anyway to see if I can scare some people out.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button raises, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO folds.

Turn: (7.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets,

Jerome Graham · #2 07-15-2006, 03:13 PM

Maybe I'm too tight passive but I
a) fold preflop
b) fold the flop
c) check the turn

James. · #3 07-15-2006, 03:27 PM

pf okay, you are ensured multiway action. flop you are getting 14.5-1 almost closing the action; most of your hand is bd draws but given it's a small bet making a loose peel here is fine given the pot size. and then the turn bet comes. do you think it will clean up Ace outs? i don't. it's not for value. for it to be a profitable semibluff there must be a chance that they fold and it is too big of a parlay given the drawiness/broadwayiness(is that a word?)of the board, the number of opponents, and the pot size. i would check and call so the pot is larger if we hit. that seems more valuable than getting people out hoping a better ace or some pair folds.

Haupt_234 · #4 07-15-2006, 03:30 PM

The preflop call is fine.

Fold the flop since all you are relying on is backdoor draws and your overcard will be tainted a lot of the time.

As for the turn...

[ QUOTE ]
The turn I pick up the nut flush draw, straight draw, and I still have the overcard

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet out anyway to see if I can scare some people out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see why these 2 don't make sense? You have a pretty decent draw, which is true. So you WANT players to pad the pot and throw money in there when you have a draw. Not scare them away.

The only reason to bet would be if you believed the button was checking through and you had an equity edge-which you don't. Also, there is a very good chance you will be raised by a queen on this board.

Check/call the turn.

Haupt_234

TitanFan · #5 07-15-2006, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As for the turn...

[ QUOTE ]
The turn I pick up the nut flush draw, straight draw, and I still have the overcard

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet out anyway to see if I can scare some people out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see why these 2 don't make sense? You have a pretty decent draw, which is true. So you WANT players to pad the pot and throw money in there when you have a draw. Not scare them away.

Haupt_234

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the two statements combined make my bet a semi-bluff. (not a value bet). I dont have a hand but I have a lot of outs on a really scary board.

TitanFan · #6 07-15-2006, 03:53 PM

Yeah, I see what you are saying, I was thinking semi-bluff and get some of them to fold, but for a semi-bluff to work there has to be a chance that they will ALL fold, which aint happening most of the time. Ok cool! Thank you for the advice! good post! (Broadwayiness works for me! hahaha)

Haupt_234 · #7 07-15-2006, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Well, the two statements combined make my bet a semi-bluff. (not a value bet). I dont have a hand but I have a lot of outs on a really scary board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then it is a bad semi-bluff.

Do you really think all 4 players will lay down? Do you think there is a good chance someone has a queen and will charge you double for your draw? Or possibly triple?

Are you firing again on the river if your turn bet is just called and you miss?

Haupt_234

XmasXmas · #8 07-15-2006, 04:45 PM

i think james and haupt covered the hand discussion pretty well so i just want to point out one thing. you said that your overcard isn't a very good one given the board. why? you think someone will make two pair if you hit your A? if so, then your semi-bluff is a poor one b/c few people are going to lay down a pair + top kicker on this board given the pot size.

are you afraid that the A will complete someone's straight? they already had it if they're holding a Q.

anyway, that's all i wanted to add. listen to other people for the rest of the hand's action.

dano · #9 07-15-2006, 10:04 PM

On this board with 4 players seeing the turn, I don't like this bet. I like checking this and hoping the button checks it through. I think the button checks this through often. If you bet, Button is probably not folding here unless holding Ace Jack, which is not that likely. Hands that Button folds he was probably checking through anyways.

By betting you are often getting check raised by a queen. check and call.