call or raise the maniac?

[poker_bill]

Set up: low limit SnG's NL Holdem, 10 handed to start, blinds at 10 and 20, initial stake $1500, blinds increase every 10 min.

At almost every SnG I play, there's at least 1 maniac that will play every hand. They usually raise any Ace, most Kings, most Suited connectors, and of course, any pocket pair. Often enough, they get lucky in the begining, and will double, triple, or quadruple up, busting 1 or two people out quickly.

Against players like this, I play tight, wait for good cards, and never bluff at em. If I make top pair/good kicker or better, I get as much in the pot as I think they'll call.

However, I'm not sure what's the best strategy when I hold something like top pair, weak kicker, or middle/bottom pair. I usually just call their bets, or check/bet (depends on my position) This works, but I want to get the most value for my hands, but since you can't put them on a hand since they have no starting requirement (assuming they just limped in), I don't want to go broke on a marginal hand either.

How do you guys handle the maniacs out there?

[Albert Moulton]

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However, I'm not sure what's the best strategy when I hold something like top pair, weak kicker, or middle/bottom pair.

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If you didn't raise preflop, why are you playing with a hand that flops TPWK or mid/bottom pair? A TPWK hand should be folded preflop in a raised pot unless its a very small raise relative to stack sizes, it's multi-way, and/or it's suited and you're looking for a better flop than TPWK. Small pairs need to be played carefully in these games because in raised pots they usually can't be called for set value since the stacks often aren't deep enough.

Now, if you're hand is better than maniac's pfr'ing range, then reraise preflop and be willing to gamble all-in with a hand like AJ or even 88 if you suspect he's pushing K8s and such.

If you raise preflop, get called by a maniac, then you flop TPTK or better OOP, then c/r if you think he'll bet if you show weakness. Bet if you think he'll call with 1-pair or worse. Call his all in if you think he'll push with draws, any pair, and ace-high as often as when he has a real hand.

I wouldn't waste your chips calling him down on multiple streets post flop when you didn't raise preflop with 2nd pair or worse. You're probably going to show down with him, so make sure you have a solid hand that is clearly ahead of his hand range. In the early stages of the SnG, A5s for TPWK, 2nd pair and worse hands on a flop in which the pot is small just aren't worth calling off all your chips even if he is a "maniac."

[poker_bill]

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However, I'm not sure what's the best strategy when I hold something like top pair, weak kicker, or middle/bottom pair.

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If you didn't raise preflop, why are you playing with a hand that flops TPWK or mid/bottom pair?

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For me, it's either when I'm in the blinds, and I get to see the flop for free/cheap, or I'm in the cutoff/on the button, and it's folded around to me, and I'm sure I can see a cheap flop with something in the range of A7 to J10. If they're suited, even better, but with the range these guys have, I figure I have a better starting hand than they do. With position, I'll usually know if I'm good or not by the time it comes around to me, in the blinds, if I hit something, I'll try a probe bet and see where I stand.

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A TPWK hand should be folded preflop in a raised pot unless its a very small raise relative to stack sizes, it's multi-way, and/or it's suited and you're looking for a better flop than TPWK. Small pairs need to be played carefully in these games because in raised pots they usually can't be called for set value since the stacks often aren't deep enough.

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No argument there.

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Now, if you're hand is better than maniac's pfr'ing range, then reraise preflop and be willing to gamble all-in with a hand like AJ or even 88 if you suspect he's pushing K8s and such.

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This is where I run into trouble, I've taken so many bad beats before (I've only been playing since Jan '07) I've gotten gun shy. I don't like the idea of putting my tournament on the line with something like medium pocket pair while in the early stages of the tournament.

I think most of these maniacs try to get as much of their money in preflop because they can't play post flop.

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If you raise preflop, get called by a maniac, then you flop TPTK or better OOP, then c/r if you think he'll bet if you show weakness. Bet if you think he'll call with 1-pair or worse. Call his all in if you think he'll push with draws, any pair, and ace-high as often as when he has a real hand.

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I'll check raise if I have two pair or better, but I'll check call with TPTK. Leak on my part?


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I wouldn't waste your chips calling him down on multiple streets post flop when you didn't raise preflop with 2nd pair or worse. You're probably going to show down with him, so make sure you have a solid hand that is clearly ahead of his hand range. In the early stages of the SnG, A5s for TPWK, 2nd pair and worse hands on a flop in which the pot is small just aren't worth calling off all your chips even if he is a "maniac."

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I'll call him down if I see his bets getting smaller and smaller as each street comes, it's been my experience that they usually missed or have a draw/bottom pair, and they're hoping I'll give up.

Assuming the pots are relatively small, I don't mind calling a few down early on so I can get a read on the guy, if it's just the two of us in the pot. Usually, I don't have to do this, I can just sit back and watch the donks beat each other up, and read the hand history to see what they're playing and how they're betting.

[rufus]

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This is where I run into trouble, I've taken so many bad beats before (I've only been playing since Jan '07) I've gotten gun shy. I don't like the idea of putting my tournament on the line with something like medium pocket pair while in the early stages of the tournament.

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From what you describe, you should probably be playing a smaller number of hands. The motivation for restricting the range of hands here isn't profitability (as are clearly aware, it's more profitable to increase the range of hands you play with), but to reduce variance.

Since the maniac is all too willing to put money in the pot, you may well be better off just taking dominating hands against the maniac. The huge individual profitability of these premium holdings should be plenty to offset the loss from restricting your range, and the strong edge will reduce issues from bad beats. It takes patience, but, remember that it's not really that bad for you if the maniac does wipe out some of the other players.

[poker_bill]

I usually play fairly tight and wait, but sometimes, when I'm stuck in the blinds, and see a cheap/free flop, and I hit something, I don't like the idea of just folding to the maniac on a draw of bottom pair.