75 Spot vs. Paired Door Card

[Jeffage]

This happened a couple weeks ago in an Atlantic City 75 stud game. We were seven handed and four players (no cards higher than a jack) limped - this in itself is pretty unusual. I'm next with the (4x 5x) 3x and toss a quarter in. There are no deuces or sixes out. A loose player with a king up calls behind me.

On 4th street, the loose player pairs kings. He bets the full 150 and everyone folds to me; meanwhile, I catch a six and no one catches a deuce or seven.

4th Street

Villain: (x,x) K K

Hero: (4x 5x) 3x 6x

There is $430 in the pot after he bets, offering me immediate odds of just under 3-1. Also assume that this player would NEVER (or at least almost never) limp with kings on third street even though it would probably be correct to do so with the way the action presented itself. So his likely hands are: kings up with a small pocket pair or dry kings with middle side cards. This player also has been known to make "bad" late street folds because he "knows" he is beat. What is the best way to proceed with this hand?

Thanks,
Jeff

[iamastud]

My belief and immediate reaction is to fold this hand and not pursue this one any further.

There is still the possibility of his having 3 kings, becasue as you said, it is more correct for him to flat call than raise it on 3rd with so many limpers. If he has 2 pair instead, you are essentially only drawing to your straight with pairing or two pairing along the way of no help to you. It is always worthwhile to have backup alternatives to the hand you are trying to make in case you dont make it and you are not in that position, unless you also had 3 suited going on also. The only hand that you could be happy with his having enabling you to chase is the kings with 2 other high cards. Even the kings with 3 suited would not be what you are looking for.

So, given that you are heads up, I can not see that it is correct to chase. I would fold.

[dsaxton]

I usually fold in this situation since my hand will be face-up if I call, and there is always the chance that he actually has trips.

[southerndog]

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I usually fold in this situation since my hand will be face-up if I call, and there is always the chance that he actually has trips.

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I agree.

Little ahead, way behind..

I think his hand plays better on later streets to.

[Jeffage]

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I usually fold in this situation since my hand will be face-up if I call

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This I don't really agree with since I think he'll be more likely to fear rolled up trips or turned trip sixes based on how this game plays and how I'm perceived.

Jeff

[electrical]

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I usually fold in this situation since my hand will be face-up if I call

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This I don't really agree with since I think he'll be more likely to fear rolled up trips or turned trip sixes based on how this game plays and how I'm perceived.

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Since you have small cards, there's only one way for you to win this hand at showdown, and making a two-pair or running trips may actually cost you money. If you do make the straight, you're probably only going to win the minimum, or lose an extra bet if he fills. With so little advantage in the money when you win, and a potential extra bet lost if you lose, this doesn't seem like a hand you want to show down.

If you think you can freak him out and make him fold (as implied by your comment), you could raise him back on Four and then semi-bluff Five or take the free card. The problem with raising for a free card is that it doesn't save you any money, since it's a double bet to you already, so you'd be raising to scare him, and probably still need to catch a scare card.

If you had anything else going for you, like a three-flush, you would have some deception built-into your hand, and you'd have more than one way to win at showdown. As it stands, if you're gong to play, I think you have to be aggressive enough to fold him (since you think he might fold), so you don't have to bank on your ship coming in eventually. If you make a straight, I suppose you could win that way too.

For myself, I fold Third and fold Fourth.

[Brad1970]

I assume this is stud hi???

If so, I would probably lean toward not chasing & fold since he paired his door card. But, I could also make an argument for peeling one off & see if I catch.

[Andy B]

I toss this dog on third street. On fourth, I still don't like your hand that much. You're in decent shape against bare Kings, but against two pair, you're not in very good shape. Against trips, you're in trouble, and I suspect that there is at least some chance that he has them. If he's really loose, I think you can continue, but folding still can't be that bad. Against a reasonable opponent, I think that this is a fold.

[*TT*]

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I toss this dog on third street.

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Considering the number of opponents in the pot I dont view this hand as a dog. And underdog yes, but not a dog. I think calling on 3rd is fine.

Unless the opponent is totally retarded 4th is a toss. Jeff will never see his needed implied odds if he hits perfect on 5th street.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Jeffage]

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Unless the opponent is totally retarded

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While I wouldn't use this same language, this opponent likes to give a lot of action in certain situations he shouldn't and he likes to sometimes "realize he's beat" in situations where he should pay off.

Jeff