Big raised pot live

[Aisthesis]

Live game, 1/2/5, which means that the blinds cost $1 and $2, but a limp is $5, and you still have to complete from BB if you want to play. Minimum buy-in is $300, and I buy in for $400.

I've run my stack up to $850, and am really not completely excited about playing this deep, but I figure it's going to be rare that we get it all in. Relevant for this hand is that my bets get pretty huge respect from players who have played with me at this casino, although I think others have also observed that I'm playing tight but am capable of moves on the flop. My VPIP is probably somewhere in the 20-25% range, whereas the rest of the table is all probably closer to 80%.

I limp in MP3 with KhKc7h2s, and an extremely strong player to my left (the table had just been talking about this guy, Don, as being the most feared player in the game, and it's because he's just extremely good) makes it $40 to go. 3 callers in MP, and I call, so 5 players see the flop, which comes AhKs4h.... hmmmm...

First of all, I should note that the $40 raise is quite simply repping AA. Normal are $15-30 raises, but $40 is strong. Don probably raises close to 20% of his hands, but also usually smaller, and he also has me covered. A couple of nuances in his play, too: I think he CBs a little bit too often, which actually makes sense because he's feared and has quite a bit of fold equity. Also, he varies his bet-sizes frequently. I think full pot is sometimes a bit weaker than a 2/3 pot type bet, but I think he mixes up this pattern sufficiently that it's hard to get a definitive read. He also never shows his losers unless he has to, so that also makes it difficult to have this read down completely solid (no hand histories live, of course).

Checked to me, I decide to check here. Maybe I'm a little scared playing for a pot this size against a very good player, but here's my reasoning: If Don specifically doesn't have AA, I know exactly where I'm at, and even if a straight hits the turn after he checks, I may be a little behind but can still play for flush and boat. So, checking around isn't such a disaster and also defines what I'm up against.

Secondly, in light of my image, he's going to bet a lot weaker than he'll call or raise my bet. I'd love to see some kind of AK hand betting here or even KQJT (I do think Don is going to be pretty strong if he bets here). What I really don't want to happen is to bet out $200 and have him raise. I have outs, but really not enough vs. AA to play for $850.

So, I check. He bets $200, others fold, and I call. With his bet, I think he has top 2, probably with gutshot, AA or some kind of QJT hand. Played this way, I think I can also rep any broadway straight on the turn. If he has it, fine, I'm still good to go for stack vs. the straight, but he really should fold AA there.

The real downside imo is that I'm going to have some difficulty on the turn if the board pairs. I'll have to admit that in this game few people will bluff a full without having it, but Don is also really good at buying pots. I've played with him enough that I should have a better idea what he'd do there, but I honestly don't. I do feel like with him I can sometimes be better off calling than betting, as he will try to push you off of a hand--not really a maniac but definitely a smart LAG.

Turn is an effective blank, namely 2d. I think repping the low straight is somewhat implausible for me, and I don't think he has it either. I check, and he fires $600. After thinking fairly long about this, I put in that plus the few extra dollars that I have left. My sense was that he more often than not doesn't have AA, but it's hard to say in the heat of battle.

River a non-pairing heart, so I win the pot of $1,750 (!!). Judging from comments after the hand, I really think he had AK, but possibly KQJT. I really don't think he had AA. He said he did have a K anyway.

Thoughts? Am I playing too scared at these stakes? Or should I lay down that deep? If he does have AA, I'm definitely drawing too thin.

[Rob121]

you said it yourself that he varies his raising sizes well so why are you squarly putting him on AA with his preflop raise?

"check. He bets $200, others fold, and I call. With his bet, I think he has top 2, probably with gutshot, AA or some kind of QJT hand. Played this way, I think I can also rep any broadway straight on the turn"
this is really bad logic, its usually not a good idea to rep soemthing that your putting the other guy on.

[chucky]

Hero said that 40 dollar raise preflop was unusually strong preflop raise. That said I agree about hero having problems, namely with trying to represent a straight on the turn is tough with only one psb left. I guess Hero's thought is that even if his turn bet is raised he has outs to call a shove.

[Aisthesis]

Yeah, that's basically it. True QJT of some sort is ONE of the possible hands I put villain on.

If I call a PSB on the flop, then we have a pot of $600 on the turn, and I have something like $650 left. So, I bet. Sure if he has the straight he now calls, and I have as many as 17 outs (probably a few less, as I think he'll have some flush draw to go with the wrap, but still plenty to play for stack). But if he has naked AA, he hopefully folds to my PSB, and AA is a much bigger problem for me.

I mean, once I bet the turn at $600, I'm obviously calling an additional $50 or so in a pot of $1600.

[alavet]

wp sir!

[roggles]

You should have only called on the turn so you get to see his hand. Not showing his hand here is kind of dickish, since you more or less called his bet.

[cmyr]

not showing his hand isn't dickish at all if hero rivers the nuts. Making somebody show you the losing hand is dickish.


As long as he's raising a wide variety of hands and playing aggressively you have to agree on this flop to go broke. That said, c/r the flop is obv. dumb since it lets weak heart draws fold and also pushes out all of the bettor's hands that you beat. With your hand, given the action, I would almost always check/call and c/r any turn. The idea of leading out to represent broadway is dumb I think since he isn't (probably) going to fold anyway, and you're much better checking and letting him put another bet in w/ AK.


It isn't like this is a 3bet or anything and you can assume he has AA a good % of the time, and I think folding this flop when you have a 10outer is pretty weak, and a losing play against an aggressive player. If I didn't have hearts I would c/c and think about c/f a broadway turn, but I'd often still go broke.


Where is this game?

[FireStorm]

He doesn't have AA here often enough to justifiably fold, your play here is fine.

[roggles]

[ QUOTE ]
not showing his hand isn't dickish at all if hero rivers the nuts. Making somebody show you the losing hand is dickish.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the bet had covered him on the turn so that OP was calling, would it still be bad etiqutte to see "Villain's" hand before showing the nut flush?

[JP OSU]

was this in Tulsa?