Debate help: Christmas in schools

[Neville Flynn]

There was a thread in this forum a couple days back where you all helped out a guy with an affirmative action debate, and I would greatly appreciate it if you all could help me as well. If this isn't allowed here, I apologize.

I've been assigned to argue against allowing specific religious entities have decorations in school, specifically Christmas, even though I do not particularly feel strongly or know much about the issue. What should my plan of attack be?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Poofler]

Separation of church and state. For public schools anyway. Just google that and you'll find a million essays advocating your position.

[WillMagic]

Poofler basically nailed it. Your ground is the separation of church and state. Talk about how atheists/muslims/jews are all forced to attend public school, so christmas decorations are essentially shoving religion in the face of these atheists/muslims/jews.

What people do on their own property is their issue, but what is done on public property must remain religion-free.

As to my actual personal opinion, I think the main problem is that the state runs the schools, and has to take a one size fits all approach with its students. A free market would allow entrepreneurs to tailor instruction to suit the students' needs and the parents' desires, with nobody having to step on anyone else's toes.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
the main problem is that the state runs the schools, and has to take a one size fits all approach with its students. A free market would allow entrepreneurs to tailor instruction to suit the students' needs and the parents' desires, with nobody having to step on anyone else's toes.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

[keith123]

[ QUOTE ]
As to my actual personal opinion, I think the main problem is that the state runs the schools, and has to take a one size fits all approach with its students. A free market would allow entrepreneurs to tailor instruction to suit the students' needs and the parents' desires, with nobody having to step on anyone else's toes.

[/ QUOTE ]

and they'd all be free?

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As to my actual personal opinion, I think the main problem is that the state runs the schools, and has to take a one size fits all approach with its students. A free market would allow entrepreneurs to tailor instruction to suit the students' needs and the parents' desires, with nobody having to step on anyone else's toes.

[/ QUOTE ]

and they'd all be free?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, how could it be free?

[keith123]

well, i mean tax dollars would pay for it?

[WillMagic]

[ QUOTE ]
well, i mean tax dollars would pay for it?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
well, i mean tax dollars would pay for it?

[/ QUOTE ]
In me and WIllMagic's world? No, and it would be better like that.

edit: Some links to prior debates, feel free to bump-
free (as in speech) education
education for anarcho-capitalists
What is the goal of education?

[[Phill]]

This is happening in the UK where at least one entrepreneur i know of has invested millions of his own money into building new schools where the government pays for the students to attend and they are public schools in that sense.

He has also been introducing fundamental christianity (his religion) into the school through a mix of teacher selections and what school assemblys cover.

One of the more shocking things was a former student talking on camera about how a science teacher taught evolution, and at the end of the less took out his bible, and said words to the effect of 'evolution is one theory, here is what i believe...' and went into a select reading of genesis.

I saw most of this on a documentary but struggled to find a solid report from an independant group (bbc etc).

I did find this http://www.tuc.org.uk/congress/tuc-10665-f0.cfm

The TUC is the trade union commision - a group fairly left wing and pro public sector control of education, health etc. So you can take this with a pinch of salt if you wish - but like i say what i quote before ive seen backed up by first hand info from students taught in these schools on a credible documentary program here in the UK.

[ QUOTE ]
It beggars belief that this Government intend to roll out a £5 billion programme which takes schools out of local education authority control and the accountability of the local community and puts them into the hands of private sponsors. The ability to raise the £2 million seems to be the sole criterion for sponsoring an academy.

Who are these private sponsors? Sadly, I have to tell you that the evidence so far shows that these sponsors in the main are rich businessmen and faith groups. Have you ever heard of anything for nothing? Well, of course not. They all have their own private agendas. The Christian fundamentalist, Sir Peter Vardy of Reg Vardy Cars, sponsors the academy in Middlesborough. Children are taught as fact that Darwin's evolution is just one theory and creationism is at least equally valid.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was also evidence that they were selecting the brighter students using selective enforcement of school codes (half of which are really minor) to bump up their performance figures.

Students were being expelled for things such as uniform infractions and chewing gum in class.

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Btw, my opinion is that religion has no place in school outside of an RE (religious ed) class - they are however increasing faith schools (muslim, catholic etc 'only' (but in theory they cant discriminate on religious grounds) schools).

I find things like this offensive an a step in the wrong direction entirely.

The problem with applying market dynamics to education is that if there is any part of it not up to scratch and there is a funding difference between two schools, this means we could disenfranchise a large group of students - often the poor inner city kids who need the oppertunities as much as anyone.

The teaching of creationism in science is one such example of gross over extension of powers that this one guy has.