A common situation vs. an unknown

AZplaya · #1 06-05-2006, 12:50 AM

I think most decent players are able to figure out the best line to take when they have a read/stats/both on a Villian. I personally find the most difficult decisions to be against an unknown player. There are many on this forum who advocate assuming an unknown is a donk until proven otherwise. Still equally as many prefer to wait until a read is established before making assumptions about an opponents play. The purpose of this post is to look at the pro's and con's of each school of thought. I hope to generate discussion from posters as to whether it's best to assume our opponents are fish or to wait for a specific read. I present the following scenario to generate this discussion. For this hand assume full stacks.

Hero has just sat down at a Party NL$100 6max table. Hero waits for BB, post, and is kindly dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for his first hand. Folded around to CO who covers, CO raises to $4. Unfortunatley hero has no stats, notes, or reads on this opponent. Folded to Hero, Hero makes it $15, CO calls. Pot is now ~$30. Flop comes down: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Hero leads for $25, CO raises to $75, Hero???

Push or fold, and why?

TurdFerguson · #2 06-05-2006, 01:09 AM

In the heat of the moment I probably grumble to myself, and push here most of the time (by my count, it's only $10 more after the call anyway). We're worried about two hands here (QQ and JJ) that crush us. We're hoping to God to see AQ, AJ, AK or KK, or a big bluff.

Without a strong read, I don't see how we get away from this unless we put Villain squarely on QQ or JJ -- I think we need a read to make this laydown much more than we need a read to push.

Other thoughts?

Wools · #3 06-05-2006, 01:28 AM

Playing against unknowns is always tricky, and even moreso when OOP.

My general strategy against unknowns is to get to showdown as cheaply as possible when I dont "know" I'm ahead. I tend to sacrafice some value to avoid taking bet/fold lines since I have no reads on how villain plays. Getting to showdown with made, but not overly strong hands is important because you have a decent chance of being best and you'll get to see what he's showing down with and develop a primitive read.

Misanthrope · #4 06-05-2006, 02:14 AM

look at the unknowns name. if its something like bettingJoe or HelmuthJr push. If its 311JK or Rakeback fold.

deaders · #5 06-05-2006, 03:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
look at the unknowns name. if its something like bettingJoe or HelmuthJr push. If its 311JK or Rakeback fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much do people really read into someone's name? I hope a lot of people see it that way because my name on party should generate some action.

carnivalhobo · #6 06-05-2006, 03:20 AM

unknown -> all in

xwillience · #7 06-05-2006, 05:22 AM

I think this has potential for some discussion so heres a bump with my answer: Push.

Up against someone at NL100 I make the assumption that they are more weak tight. I assume that they will raise hands like AJ/AQ preflop, they limp smaller PPs, and they will bet TPGK. I think they are capable or raising (min raising) draws and can read the board well so that can be used against them. I also assume that they are there because they think they know what they are doing, whether or not this is right will be determined later on. They think they can pick off CBs, and they are capable of steal attempts with position.

How does this apply to your example:

I think villian has a pretty wide range to raise here. When he calls the reraise he has to have somethign better than mediocre. AQ/AA/KK/QQ/JJ/maybe KQ. I dont think u get called by worse hands other than KK, but folding isnt an option imho.

Maulik · #8 06-05-2006, 11:14 AM

I have no problem shoving here if there were a flush draw. Either way you cut it you can get all-in here. I'd expect an overpair to be good fairly frequently, some times to see AQ, AJ, KK too.

Some times you win these pots some times you don't after the hand you'll know how villain plays his big hands or his [censored] trash. That's worth $ to you in the future if yo usee him again.