tricky turn decsision

iceit · #1 11-03-2007, 11:25 AM

no real read or stats on villain, I'm new to the table. Preflop and flop I think were easy decisions. On the turn I bet to represent the J but obviously got raised. My question here is, what is the best turn play here and why. Also is the turn raise an easy call considering what the pot was offering me?

Thanks

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Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (11 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG folds.

River: (12.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls $0.25 (All-In).

Final Pot: 15 BB

Bona · #2 11-03-2007, 11:40 AM

I can fold to the turn raise but with 10.5:1 and 4 outs I think it is probably a close decision (slight peel?) and a call is OK closing the action. But we have UTG behind us so ???.

B2_eBoogaloo · #3 11-03-2007, 01:23 PM

check/call turn

--on the turn, you are still facing 3 opponents, and it is not likely we have the best hand. We probably have >4 outs to the best hand.

bet/call river as played. If we check/raise and get 3-bet, can we fold?

B2_eBoogaloo · #4 11-03-2007, 01:24 PM

Bona folding turn is like never a good idea, esp with those pot odds after it gets raised.

iceit · #5 11-03-2007, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
check/call turn

--on the turn, you are still facing 3 opponents, and it is not likely we have the best hand. We probably have >4 outs to the best hand.

bet/call river as played. If we check/raise and get 3-bet, can we fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't we ruin all of our pot odds if we get 3bet and that kind of forces us to fold??? I might think of check raising here if I got a better price on the turn but not with these odd. Way too thin I think

later

drzen · #6 11-03-2007, 07:07 PM

I'm not sure about the flop bet. You're often getting raised, and if you are, your bet didn't have value. You also allow UTG holding KJ to fold out the rest of the table. I don't think you ever get everyone to fold with two cards in the PZ. If no one raises, it's a good bet. So I guess you could look at that either way.

The turn bet is horrible though. You can't "represent" the jack by betting here, because you'd bet with a ton of other hands. What's more, the chances are pretty good someone actually has a jack. On top of that, a lot of tens won't fold either.

You have to call the raise though. It looks thin because he's short, but being short, he can be raising quite a few hands that don't beat you if you pair.

Betting the turnI'm not sure about the flop bet. You're often getting raised, and if you are, your bet didn't have value. You also allow UTG holding KJ to fold out the rest of the table. I don't think you ever get everyone to fold with two cards in the PZ. If no one raises, it's a good bet. So I guess you could look at that either way.

The turn bet is horrible though. You can't "represent" the jack by betting here, because you'd bet with a ton of other hands. What's more, the chances are pretty good someone actually has a jack. On top of that, a lot of tens won't fold either.

You have to call the raise though. It looks thin because he's short, but being short, he can be raising quite a few hands that don't beat you if you pair.

bravos1 · #7 11-03-2007, 07:34 PM

first mistake is on the flop.. check the flop
2nd mistake is the turn bet.

Calling the turn raise is very thin and you could be drawind dead already. How many outs do we have on the turn? We need to discount the 4 Qs a little and our A/K outs are non-existent.

drzen · #8 11-04-2007, 12:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
first mistake is on the flop.. check the flop
2nd mistake is the turn bet.

Calling the turn raise is very thin and you could be drawind dead already. How many outs do we have on the turn? We need to discount the 4 Qs a little and our A/K outs are non-existent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the A/K outs exist because the other guy is short. They're not solid outs but he doesn't have to have a J.

Bulletproof Monk · #9 11-04-2007, 03:04 AM

wow that river c/r is bad given vils stacksize....

flop bet is fine, chking would have been ok too

turn c/c

river b/c

Mitke · #10 11-04-2007, 05:08 AM

* grunch *

Preflop: standard

Flop:
5-way and OOP this is not automatic c-bet with JT often connecting well with limpers' ranges. There's a lot of RIO on offer if we hit A or K also. I don't hate the c-bet but there are better places for it. Checking does flip over your hand though.

Turn:
4-way and OOP and our OC outs might have gone down the toilet - I'd skip firing the second barrel. Check and see what happens.

As played, calling the raise is easy with odds and as CO is putting in his last chips I'd probably call crying on the river if I improve - and with any reads of the CO as LAGgy I might even call UI to catch a "last chips desperation bluff".

EDIT: After reading other responses, turn call isn't as easy as I said: I didn't discount Q-outs for FH. And yes, river should have been b/c althoug I believe CO bets here with just about anything for value or in desperation.