Folding KK on the flop, 4-handed

[ezdonkey]

I'm not a regular 2p2'er, but this hand got us into a little argue with a friend of mine.

(Sorry for not being able to convert into any the usual 2p2 form.)

Seat 1: adp0211 ($26.40 in chips)
Seat 3: tinluca ($140.95 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($169.35 in chips)
Seat 8: BenHurMars_L ($159.15 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
BenHurMars_L posts blind ($0.50), adp0211 posts blind ($1).

Dealt to Hero K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

PRE-FLOP
tinluca calls $1, Hero bets $4.50, BenHurMars_L calls $4, adp0211 folds, tinluca calls $3.50.

FLOP [board cards J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]
BenHurMars_L bets $4, tinluca bets $15, Hero folds ...



Villain (the reraiser) seems kinda solid. No other reads.

I opted to fold this due to following reasons:
a) Although SB made a very smallish underbet, we can't really count him out of the hand yet.
b) IMO A-J can be counted off from Villains range?
c) Villain might be, over 60% of times, raising this with a draw. Most likely a combodraw with somekind of a straight draw + flush draw.
d) Villain can outplay us on the river even if the scare card doesn't hit him.
f) If I choose to play this hand I'm committing probably 90% my whole stack. We are not specially deep, but everyone's nearing 150BB's.
e) Best of all, we might already be ahead of either of players flopping a set.


My friend argues for calling at least on the flop.

Any thoughts?

[Ben86]

this is weak tight. call and reevaluate the situation on the turn

[Imrahil]

I've folded here before. I may just call the $15 in this situation though.

[sh0wtime]

Raise. Who knows what the donker has, the other guy is probably raising with any jack and this board is way too drawy for me to want to call or fold.

[scorer]

don't think you can fold on the flop yet. Let's say yuou call the 15 dollar raise and the original raiser re raises you both then you have to get out. I think you should call here and see the turn. Sure one of them can have a set; but your just as likely to have one on a flush draw and one with top pair or a straight draw.

[Hince]

You have position here, an overpair and it is a short handed game. I like a call. It's going to be very difficult for any player to double barrel after you smooth call and raise preflop.

I think you need a better read to fold in this spot.

[Wak3UpTheK1ng]

how are we only calling this flop? rr flop to 45 and re-evaluate turn. At least if you rr this flop, i'm pretty sure any set will give themselve away by the turn. In any case, I am rr'ing this flop, and re-evaluating turn. calling the flop and keeping the pot small is okay too, I definitely would not fold this is a great chance to stack up

[Ben86]

i dont like raising because we are still in the dark about the SB, and other villian has only showed strength. If we take the turn we can see them both act and have a cheaper determination of whether our hand is good or not.

[ezdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont like raising because we are still in the dark about the SB, and other villian has only showed strength. If we take the turn we can see them both act and have a cheaper determination of whether our hand is good or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same.

I took all the time between calling/folding and opted to fold. Not thinking about raising to this flop where we might be already dead.

Seems like re-evaluate turn is the best play. (So again my friend was right. He isn't an accomplished Internet pro for nothing. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])