30/60 Razz hand

[blumpkin]

Seat 2 is "ishuck" on Pokerstars. Super aggro, sometimes borderline maniac, capable of almost anything, but usually can read hands well. At the time, I thought it was possible he would 3-bet my 4th street raise even if he paired fours. No big reads on Seat 4. Obviously he was a little stubborn during the hand - a sign he has 123?

Razz ($30/$60), Ante $5 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.83 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in__calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes___raises___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises

4th Street - (12.83 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___"blum are you high? for **** sake"__calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls

5th Street - (10.92 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (13.92 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

River - (15.92 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

Total pot: (15.92 BB)

[Joe Tall]

If your opponents are the type to plow through 4th street when the catch high, slow down on the third the more you put in the more it's correct for them to do so even if the catch Ks, 4th street is fine and the rest is fine.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
If your opponents are the type to plow through 4th street when the catch high, slow down on the third the more you put in the more it's correct for them to do so even if the catch Ks, 4th street is fine and the rest is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Joe - Ethan is a coinflip (slightly in Ethan's favor) if seat 4 has precisely (A3)2. Although you are 100% correct in your statement, I'd push the edge here knowing the third player is an idiot because it also allows me to play correctly on 4th street peeling an extra card if I catch bad, and allows negitive equity to get into the pot.

With that said, I'm cool either way. I think its really a slight difference either way. equity link

I found 6th street to be the most interesting, I'd love comments on that.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[electrical]

I play Razz rarely, so I may be talking out my pooper, but:

Fourth is good because the bad player is coming along.

Fifth is a magic card. Excellent deck management there.

When the guy in seat 2 calls on Six rather than raises it looks like he made a rough Eight and wants to show down in case hero just has a Nine. That might be enough to inspire me to bet the end regardless of the last card.

Villain checking behind on the end reinforces that, as a Seven-Four would probably bet for value and anything worse than an Eight might bet as a bluff.

I would expect to be shown an Eight-Seven.

[blumpkin]

"it looks like he made a rough Eight and wants to show down in case hero just has a Nine. That might be enough to inspire me to bet the end regardless of the last card."

You think he wants to get to showdown with an 87, yet I should bluff a 97? Seems like a terrible idea.

[electrical]

If you bet the river blind looking at an Eight, you're claiming Seven-Five or better. Why is that so bad?

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If your opponents are the type to plow through 4th street when the catch high, slow down on the third the more you put in the more it's correct for them to do so even if the catch Ks, 4th street is fine and the rest is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Joe - Ethan is a coinflip (slightly in Ethan's favor) if seat 4 has precisely (A3)2. Although you are 100% correct in your statement, I'd push the edge here knowing the third player is an idiot because it also allows me to play correctly on 4th street peeling an extra card if I catch bad, and allows negitive equity to get into the pot.

With that said, I'm cool either way. I think its really a slight difference either way. equity link

I found 6th street to be the most interesting, I'd love comments on that.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think we can not bet 6th as it's practically waving a white flag.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If your opponents are the type to plow through 4th street when the catch high, slow down on the third the more you put in the more it's correct for them to do so even if the catch Ks, 4th street is fine and the rest is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Joe - Ethan is a coinflip (slightly in Ethan's favor) if seat 4 has precisely (A3)2. Although you are 100% correct in your statement, I'd push the edge here knowing the third player is an idiot because it also allows me to play correctly on 4th street peeling an extra card if I catch bad, and allows negitive equity to get into the pot.

With that said, I'm cool either way. I think its really a slight difference either way. equity link

I found 6th street to be the most interesting, I'd love comments on that.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think we can not bet 6th as it's practically waving a white flag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is waving a white flag bad? It might not be... I am torn.

1) if the hero checks, will seat 2 always bet? (I think so) What will seat 8 do?

2) Seat 8 likely has a monster in the hole, HU vs seat 8 hero is a HUGE favorite. Is it better to encourage seat 8 to come along knowing he is likely dead money? Does keeping seat 8 in the pot greatly affect hero's pot equity?

I bet on 6th street too... but that doesn't mean its the only option, checking is rather interesting too.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]