KK river call or not?

Gib · #1 03-09-2007, 08:49 PM

SB is 50/13 after 30 odd hands, looking fishy atm.

Also do you prefer to b/f the turn so you don't have to make this decision on the river?

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero?

jstill · #2 03-09-2007, 09:19 PM

i think i play it like u and fold, duno if thats poor vs this potential fish. I dont think he peels this flop aceless or Qless enough (KT JT or PP <Q) and bets those hands after the turn ck with UTG still in there enough to get the 7:1 u need? mite not be true vs most fishy seeming unknowns tho?

I think if u think this hand is worth showing down here vs these villains i prefer ur line and calling a bet to betting the turn. I think there arent any worse hands u get value from with ur turn bet vs inducing bluffs or lighter river calls (tho I cant see vbing the river after I ck thru the turn even if neither bet the river? should we?)

TheWunderkind · #3 03-09-2007, 11:44 PM

think you should fold, if he would have an VPiP like 80% i would definetly call. The stats over 30 hands say nothing and if you havent a read you should fold imho. I also think if he has TJ or stuff he would bet the River because he may expect you to have an ace thats scared of the 2. Q. Think Jacks or tens he may have capped Preflop and with lower PPs or Tens i dont think he would have peeled.All in All its a pretty clear fold i think.

Allday Everyday · #4 03-09-2007, 11:51 PM

I would have called the river but I think this could be a leak in my game. Our turn play encourages a bluff and the pot is paying more than 7 to 1. I think the fishy looking guy could be bluffing or otherwise just betting enough for a call to be profitable. But we don't really have a good read on the guy.

I prefer checking the turn to bet-folding. I don't think they would call the big street with a worse hand very often. We can take our draw to KKKQQ. Also, checking can induce a bluff. But this last part would be valueless if we just fold the river when conditions are as good as they could be to call a bluff.

I don't think we could value bet the river into two players if they had checked to us. Even after we showed weakness on the turn, I can't see them calling with a worse hand enough to be profitable.

Utah · #5 03-10-2007, 12:44 AM

"I would have called the river"

I have a hard time laying down the river at current odds. The turn play encourages the sb to take a shot. You are most likely beat, but you dont have to be correct too often for the play to be profitable.

Also, I dont like letting other players know they can take shots at me with scary boards and that I will laydown.

Guy McSucker · #6 03-10-2007, 06:58 PM

Yeah, it's three handed after the flop, he's almost certainly not on air. You only beat air after the second Q falls.

Guy.

Guy McSucker · #7 03-10-2007, 07:00 PM

Oh yeah, and I tend to bet the turn, but I don't know if it's right.

Post this in MHSH. It's 10/20 after all.

Guy.

jt1 · #8 03-11-2007, 05:13 AM

I tend to fold in real life but I think calling is only slightly -ev at worse and slightly +ev at best. You might as well see what he's up to.

TheWunderkind · #9 03-11-2007, 05:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"I would have called the river"

I have a hard time laying down the river at current odds. The turn play encourages the sb to take a shot. You are most likely beat, but you dont have to be correct too often for the play to be profitable.

Also, I dont like letting other players know they can take shots at me with scary boards and that I will laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

but what would he call with on the Flop? JT? KT? KJ? T5? cant imagine that but also its possible and im calling this insta against certain opponents