30-60 live 96s

[mike l.]

mediocre live vegass 30 game. i openraise from the cutoff w/ 9d6d. a kid who looks like he's 17 and wearing a cowboy hat 3 bets, i dont know anything about him except that c/red me earlier heads up on a JTT flop and when i raised the turn brick he folded. he's played a few hands, about average for the table, semi-tight i guess. im playing tight and my image should be decent (no bluffs shown down, winning high percentage of showdowns). heads up:

the flop is Kc9h5h. he bets, i raise, he calls.

the turn is 8c. he checks, i bet, he calls.

the river is the 6s. he donks, i raise, he....

well??

[private joker]

I don't see how you can do anything but call. Hands like K7 and 97 seem to be in his range, so you may not have the best hand. Or he may be bluffing at the scare card. In both cases, there's no value in a raise. And surely you cannot fold.

Easy call in my opinion.

EDIT: I shouldn't say "surely" you cannot fold, because against some players your hand is definitely not good 1 in 8 times, and you're getting 7:1. But with the read you gave, I think your hand is good at least often enough getting 7:1. I think calling is MUCH preferable to raising or folding.

[Jeffage]

I guess if he had something like 77, he peels once he sees that turn card. But the other thing about his donk is (if he's at least moderately tricky - as the previous bet/fold hand indicates) that it's likely a hand he planned to pay off anyway but decided to bet the end bc he figures you "can't" raise with that scary board and maybe you'll call with a worse hand.

The problem is...will HE call your raise with a worse hand than two pair? I doubt he has a king. Maybe he decided to donk the river with something like tens or jacks buried. In that case, he doesn't call a raise. But if he has you crushed, he reraises. I just call here and see what he's got.

Jeff

[Gabe]

[ QUOTE ]
a kid who looks like he's 17 and wearing a cowboy hat 3 bets, i dont know anything about him except that c/red me earlier heads up on a JTT flop and when i raised the turn brick he folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like your basic LMD type player, so I probably would have just called the river donk.

[goofball]

Jeff makes a great point. He seems to play ok so there aren't a lot of hands he calls your river raise with that lose to 9s up. He might even find a fold with a K here or something. It's a good reason to bluff raise the river, or to raise witha straight, but I think raising with anything else accomplishes little or nothing.

[mr pink]

i'm guessing the kid is in the sb or bb?

I like how the whole hand played out. it's an easy dump to a 3bet on the river. I think most of the forum has gotten caught up in the "well what can he have that calls a raise?" mantra that really disregards how low people's standards are for calling a river raise. i've seen some pretty ridiculous [censored] online and live as well, where what may seem like an atrocious call to you is SOP to a lot or players (whether they seem good or not) I remember Clark saying something like "it's up for you to offer them the rope, it's up to them to decide what to do with it"

give this chump a chance to call w/ a weak king. he might think you're using the "scary" board to represent a straight enough to talk himself into calling your "bluff". the thing is, you never know what they're gonna do. it's hard to calculate how often he thinks you're FOS w/ such a limited read, if you're ahead of enough of his range and he can call w/ a worse hand, [censored] it... raise.

nh.

[mike l.]

he called my river raise amhwg. i talked in detail with death donkey about the hand and we decided he had AQ w/ Qh and he did like they do online a lot: he bet the river thinking he was bluffing and then called my raise when he remembered A high has showdown value.

hope i didnt make it sound like the kid played good: he didnt. he was out of his element in a cardroom and while adorable in his little cowboy outfit his mommy dressed him in, he did not play too good.

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
we decided he had AQ w/ Qh

[/ QUOTE ]

how'd you come to that? i think that's pretty far off.

[tongni]

Hehe. That's my friend. He posts/lurks a bit on 2p2. He plays quite well. I would assume he has JJ here. Your thinly veiled hatred/jealousy of online players makes me smile.

[ QUOTE ]
i talked in detail with death donkey about the hand and we decided he had AQ w/ Qh and he did like they do online a lot: he bet the river thinking he was bluffing and then called my raise when he remembered A high has showdown value.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
i talked in detail with death donkey about the hand and we decided he had AQ w/ Qh and he did like they do online a lot:

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record I have no recollection of this..

-DeathDonkey