Borodog and MrWookie talk Lindy Hop Shop

[Borodog]

First, so you know what I'm talking about, this is Lindy Hop.

This might go nowhere and die an ignominious death, especially since I haven't asked MrWookie about it ahead of time, but what the hell. We'll give it a go. All questions, comments, and contributions are welcome.

In my Ask Me thread I discovered MrWookie is also a Lindy Hopper. So, MrWookie, we'll start with the basics: What's your scene? What's your style? Savoy or Hollywood? Who have you taken classes or workshops with? Name a favorite song or artist to dance to.

My answers: My "scene" is the Triangle, NC area, which actually has a fairly hot swing scene (although it's no LA). There are at least two major dances per week that draw 300+. I personally dance Hollywood, or Smooth, style Lindy Hop. I also dance East Coast of course, and am currently adapting my Lindy to dance West Coast (if you're reading along and want to know what those are, you'll have to ask!). Most of my classes have been with Debbie Ramsey, who is an awesome dancer and amazing choreographer. She's a 3 time winner of the Feather Award for Top Female Teacher in The United States, and an inductee in the California Swing Dance Hall of Fame. Her Lindy Hop performance team the Swingalings took the 2003 U.S. Swing Dance Championship, among other national titles.

One of my personal favorite songs to dance to is the version of "Rockin' at Midnight" done by the Honeydrippers, headed by Robert Plant (yes, that Robert Plant).

If you had to describe Lindy Hop to someone without being able to demonstrate it, what would you say?

I'm teaching an introductory Lindy Hop class starting a week from Thursday, and they asked me to describe it for those who were unfamiliar with the dance. I sent them this:

"Hollywood style Lindy Hop is a slot dance in the swing family, most often danced to big band swing, jump blues, and early rock & roll. The dance is characterized by fast footwork and smooth movements alternating between extended, leveraged open positions and compact, compressed closed positions, the canonical example being the foundation move of Lindy Hop, the whip. Unlike the large frenetic movements of Savoy style Lindy, Hollywood, or Smooth Lindy, is characterized by style and grace, and much of the 'feel' of the dance depends on leveraged counterpoint between lead and follow. The progenitor of West Coast Swing, Hollywood style Lindy is a technically demanding but highly addictive dance style, and is enormously satisfying and fun to dance."

Would you agree?

By the way, the video at the top of the post is of Carla Heiney and Kevin St. Laurant, world class (and World Champion) Lindy Hoppers. Their style is mainly Smooth, but at the end of the video when they beat starts jumping they demonstrate they are equally comfortable doing Savoy.

[SoloAJ]

I know I'm not Borodog or MrWookie, but I can't resist.

Would you say that a strong sense of both balance/atheleticism and a sense of rhythm are extremely important for this type of dance?

I am extremely interested in this...but I have only moderate amounts of the aforementioned skills. I am not clunky by any means, but I would imagine this is a hard skill to acquire....

Apologies if I was supposed to wait for Wook to respond.

[MrWookie]

Quite honestly, I haven't heard the Savoy/Hollywood terminology used in about four or five years. I was under the impression that the delineation was considered somewhat passe by the best dancers I've hung out with. The attitude I have, and that's shared by many people I dance with, is that I don't define my dancing by one of these style, and I don't limit myself to it, either. I dance how I feel the music. If the music is gentle and fluid, I tend to dance smoothly; if it's rhythmic and bouncy, I'll match it. If the floor is packed, I dance on a slot. If I have space, I tend to fill it with more circular dancing. Some of it, too, is mirroring how my partner is dancing.

Really, if you wanted to nail down something concrete about my dancing style, it'd be that it's quite a conglomeration of things. I got into dancing by way of ballroom, and that's given me quite a few tools to play around with. I'll throw in foxtrot, balboa, samba, blues, 20's and 30's Charelston, nightclub twostep, and cha cha pretty indiscriminately if I hear it in the music. You just have to adapt the style to make it fit in with swing, and you have to be a pretty damn good lead.

I guess I could go into some of the basics that you asked about, too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I dance, umm, a lot. Who have I taken lessons from? Sheesh. I don't think I can name them all. I got started learning in college from some really accomplished friends of mine. I don't think I paid for any lessons until right after I graduated college and I went to Camp Jitterbug in Seattle. That year, they had classes from Skye & Naomi, Andy & Nina, Sean & Tonya, Jenn & Justin, Minn & Corina, and Todd & Giselle. Yeah, I learned a lot there. Steven & Virginie come to Rochester, my current home, once a year for a fantastic workshop weekend, too. I've been to 3 of those now. I've been to a couple of MezzJelly blues weekends for blues workshops, the last of which was down in Raleigh this past August. Oh, Joel and Alison do an annual bal/Charleston workshop weekend here in Rochester, too, and I've done that a couple times. I've had a few odd lessons in other places, too.

I think your description of dancing is accurate, but it's kind of a narrow picture. Not only is it just one style, but it sounds kind of sterile and mechanical. I use language that was a little more abstract and metaphorical. For me, dancing isn't fun because of the technique or getting it right. It's fun because of the feeling, and I think your description misses on some of that. I'll write up my own version later.

What do you want to get out of this thread? I'm not sure how many other people out there are interested in dancing or have much to contribute. I'll do what I can, though.

[MrWookie]

AJ,

I'd say that having a decent sense of rhythm is essential. By taking up dancing, you'll refine and hone your sense of rhythm, but there has to be something there to start out with. You listen to music much?

As far as athleticism, I'd say no. Dancing fast is about dancing precisely, not working hard. Balance is good. It's more about clean movement, and having the restraint to make small motions instead of big ones.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
Quite honestly, I haven't heard the Savoy/Hollywood terminology used in about four or five years. I was under the impression that the delineation was considered somewhat passe by the best dancers I've hung out with. The attitude I have, and that's shared by many people I dance with, is that I don't define my dancing by one of these style, and I don't limit myself to it, either. I dance how I feel the music. If the music is gentle and fluid, I tend to dance smoothly; if it's rhythmic and bouncy, I'll match it. If the floor is packed, I dance on a slot. If I have space, I tend to fill it with more circular dancing. Some of it, too, is mirroring how my partner is dancing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with any of this, except your eschewing of the terminology. There's a real difference between smooth "style" and Savoy "style", and it isn't cosmetic. It's a fundamental difference in technique that leads to fundamentally different results. Being conversant in both, and being able to seemlessly mix, match, and transition is wonderful, but that's no reason obscure the distinction in the techical craft. I think that can only hinder understanding and progression. I've heard a lot of people say things like, "Hey man, I'm not constrained by your labels", which I find is usually code for, "Hey man, my technique is halfway between smooth and savoy, i.e. nowhere." Not saying that this is you, mind you. You certainly sound like you know your [censored]. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Really, if you wanted to nail down something concrete about my dancing style, it'd be that it's quite a conglomeration of things. I got into dancing by way of ballroom, and that's given me quite a few tools to play around with. I'll throw in foxtrot, balboa, samba, blues, 20's and 30's Charelston, nightclub twostep, and cha cha pretty indiscriminately if I hear it in the music. You just have to adapt the style to make it fit in with swing, and you have to be a pretty damn good lead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree totally. Lead is King, and it lets you do whatever you want with the music, including breaking all the "rules." A good leader who knows 5 "patterns" will have a line of followers out the door while a bad leader can "know" all the patterns in the world and not be fun to dance with.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I could go into some of the basics that you asked about, too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I dance, umm, a lot. Who have I taken lessons from? Sheesh. I don't think I can name them all. I got started learning in college from some really accomplished friends of mine. I don't think I paid for any lessons until right after I graduated college and I went to Camp Jitterbug in Seattle. That year, they had classes from Skye & Naomi, Andy & Nina, Sean & Tonya, Jenn & Justin, Minn & Corina, and Todd & Giselle. Yeah, I learned a lot there. Steven & Virginie come to Rochester, my current home, once a year for a fantastic workshop weekend, too. I've been to 3 of those now. I've been to a couple of MezzJelly blues weekends for blues workshops, the last of which was down in Raleigh this past August. Oh, Joel and Alison do an annual bal/Charleston workshop weekend here in Rochester, too, and I've done that a couple times. I've had a few odd lessons in other places, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome resume. I am completely jealous. Like I said, travel has been limited for me, but I'm planning to definitely change that.

[ QUOTE ]
I think your description of dancing is accurate, but it's kind of a narrow picture. Not only is it just one style, but it sounds kind of sterile and mechanical. I use language that was a little more abstract and metaphorical. For me, dancing isn't fun because of the technique or getting it right. It's fun because of the feeling, and I think your description misses on some of that. I'll write up my own version later.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I should have made clear who the intended audience was; I'm teaching Introductory Hollywood style Lindy (hence the focus on Hollywood) to the NCSU Ballroom Dance Club; they're already all dancers. They know that the joy is in the music and the feel. They want to know what kind of a dance it is, what kind of music, what the major characteristics are, etc.

However, I will take umbrage and point out that the pinacle awesomness of dancing comes from doing it right; there is a reason the technique is was the technique is, and that's because it works the best, feels the best, and looks the best. It's like sex. Most sex is good, but it's best when you're doing it right. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you want to get out of this thread? I'm not sure how many other people out there are interested in dancing or have much to contribute. I'll do what I can, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do I want? I have no idea. This is good so far. I just thought it was cool to find someone else hooked into this subculture, and thought the Lounge might be interested.

[pryor15]

i have no idea what they're talking about, but this thread:

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
i have no idea what they're talking about, but this thread:



[/ QUOTE ]

Old and gay?

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'm not Borodog or MrWookie, but I can't resist.

Would you say that a strong sense of both balance/atheleticism and a sense of rhythm are extremely important for this type of dance?

I am extremely interested in this...but I have only moderate amounts of the aforementioned skills. I am not clunky by any means, but I would imagine this is a hard skill to acquire....

Apologies if I was supposed to wait for Wook to respond.

[/ QUOTE ]

No apology necessary.

The great news is that while a strong sense of balance and rhythm, and athletecism are required, they can all be learned, contrary to popular belief. As in anything, it helps if you have great innate talent; but it not by any means a prerequisit. I liken it to any other sport. You (or I) may not be able to "play" at the highest level, like Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, but there are tens of millions of people who are "good enough" for a pickup game of basketball or a round of golf on the weekend. And improvement is only a matter of instruction and practice.

[kitaristi0]

Questions to both of you obv.

1. How did you get started? What (or who?) made you go to that first lesson or dance?

2. Do you think Lindy Hop would be a good first dance for someone who has never danced before?

3. Do you think Lindy Hop would be a good dance for someone with an excellent sense of rhythm due to an extensive musical background but who definitely has some huge inhibitions about getting out on the dancefloor, flailing your hips about and busting a move?

4. Do you always dance with the same partner or do you just grab whoever is closest?

5. Do you also dance any other dances, and not just slight variations but a whole different style of dancing?

I'm not too interested in dance but I like Ask Me type threads a lot so maybe I'll come up with more questions later.

[MrWookie]

I'll get to the others later, but #3 is a huge yes. I think you just described me perfectly.