Phil Gordon says...

[phydaux]

In the Little Green Book, Phil says that the blinds have a negative expectation. Do you guys agree?

I was looking at my Poker Tracker stats, and I noticed that 60% of my overall losses occure in the big blind. This happens when it is limped around to me, I check from the BB with trash, then I catch a piece of the Flop.

I'm trying to train myself to get out of hands I had no intention of involving myself in in the first place.

Like say I've got J4o, and the flop comes J72 rainbow. I check, and the two other players in the hand with me check behind. If the Turn comes a brick, part of me feels like I have to take a stab at the pot.

When I'm in these situations, I find myself begging the other players to bet the Flop so I can fold with a clear conscience. But then a minimum bet just gets my hackles up, and I start thinking, "I'm not folding for one BB in a 10 BB pot!"

How tight do you guys play from the BB?

[PokerGoD69]

Phill is right, The BB have a negative expectation. Most players lower there standards, and dont realise that they are playing out of position for the whole hand (except PF). Obviously in the BB i check if its called around to me, but in the SB I dont lower my calling standards to complete the blind. Why waste half a BB on J4o? What are you really hoping for even if you hit the jack as above you cant really call a big bet. As for the BB if its raised I will re-evaluate, and only call with the best of holdings, since I will be out of position for the rest of the hand.

[johnnybeef]

The J4o hand wreaks of reverse implied odds. It is a hand that you stand to either win a little, or lose a lot if you play it aggressively. In nl holdem (and poker in general) you want to put yourself in situations that you stand to win a lot, and lose a little. The only reason to fire at the pot with the J4o is to establish that you will bet a wide range of hands oop. Against non thinking opponents, this is probably going to be a bad idea.

[4_2_it]

Phil is right. One of the biggest leaks (that is easily fixed)that many SSNL players have is calling raises from the the blinds with hands they would never play UTG.

The blinds do have negative expectation for the reasons Phil gives and that fact that anyone with a decent sized PT database will see that it is painfully true.

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
The J4o hand wreaks of reverse implied odds. It is a hand that you stand to either win a little, or lose a lot if you play it aggressively. In nl holdem (and poker in general) you want to put yourself in situations that you stand to win a lot, and lose a little. The only reason to fire at the pot with the J4o is to establish that you will bet a wide range of hands oop. Against non thinking opponents, this is probably going to be a bad idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet top pair from the blinds there for value and protection (on the turn, after having the flop checked through).

[phydaux]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the biggest leaks (that is easily fixed)that many SSNL players have is calling raises from the the blinds with hands they would never play UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lesco, the thing is that I fold J4o like it's a map, even from the Button, if I have to VP$IP. But when I'm in the BB and it's limped around to me, I check and hope for the Flop to come JJ4. But when it comes something like J72 I think, "Well, I'll check and then fold when I'm played back at..."

But when it's all checked behind me, I start smelling blood, my fangs grow out and I start thinking, "Money in the pot and nobody wants it. Gimmy, gimmy, gimmy!!!"

Sometimes I'm just too aggressive for my own good. I've been trying for weeks to get my VP$IP below 20% and it just isn't happening. The cards have been running hot lately, though.

[SonOfWestwood]

I find myself getting tighter and tighter, pre-flop, in the blinds, especially when considering hands in the SB in limped pots (or BB in a min-raised pot). I use to complete with way more junk (unsuited connectors & 1 gappers < T9, lots of suited combos, etc.) and found that it was simply more trouble than it's worth.

[phydaux]

[ QUOTE ]
Phill is right, The BB have a negative expectation. Most players lower there standards, and dont realise that they are playing out of position for the whole hand (except PF).

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... Most players tend to play more loosly from the Blinds. Do you reccomend playing no more loosly that I would from the Button, or should I tighten up, say to MP hand requiorments?

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Lesco, the thing is that I fold J4o like it's a map, even from the Button, if I have to VP$IP. But when I'm in the BB and it's limped around to me, I check and hope for the Flop to come JJ4. But when it comes something like J72 I think, "Well, I'll check and then fold when I'm played back at..."

But when it's all checked behind me, I start smelling blood, my fangs grow out and I start thinking, "Money in the pot and nobody wants it. Gimmy, gimmy, gimmy!!!"

Sometimes I'm just too aggressive for my own good. I've been trying for weeks to get my VP$IP below 20% and it just isn't happening. The cards have been running hot lately, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, playinmg TPNK OOP sucks, but when I am in this situation it really depends on the type of villain that I am up aaginst. I could c/c, b/f, b/c or c/f depending on the type and number of villians.

[davidross]

What I want to know is that when they calculate your losses in the blinds, are they including the money you posted? I think they are. I don't think the best players in the world can overcome the amounts they post, but maybe some can make money if you discount the posted amounts.