WSOP hand - KK hand

[bwana devil]

level 3. i have about 6500 in chips. blinds at 50/100 i believe. i get KK in late position. one limper into the pot before me. i make it 400. all fold except the limper who calls.

pot around 950
flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. checked to me and i bet 800 and villian calls.

pot around 2600
turn is the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. checked to me and i bet 1800*. villain goes all in and has me covered. [*really i cant remember the actual bet amt. it was somewhere between 1500-2000]

villain has gone all in once before and had the nuts. he has been playing tight and has not been caught in a bluff. he has around 30K in chips and could take some risks.

i go into the tank and eventually fold. started w/ around 6500. ended the hand w/ around 3200.

comments, problems, concerns?

[sccrneo]

Preflop looks fine. I probably bet less on the flop probably 500 as there arent any draws on this flop. This makes the pot and bet on the turn smaller and makes the fold easier. As played, I probably fold this too given your read.

[betgo]

You are getting 3-1 pot odds. You are about 18% against 2-pair, 5% against a set, and 0% against a straight. It is even possible you are way ahead.

I would need an extremely string read to fold here. Seems like a weak/tight laydown.

[PhatPots]

I would have called with that big bet on the turn that you made. JT is possible, but you practically bet the pot, do you think the villain would chase a gutshot straight like this?

I think it is more likely that he may have a Q and two suited red cards. He picked up a flush draw on the turn. Might be something like QJ of hearts. I would call this

AA is also possible, but he is very disciplined to have waited preflop twice, and then on the flop. You might also be up against AQ and he thinks he is good. An opponent with a great chip stack early on, usually means they are very aggressive/loose.

[nlc315]

I definitely think it's a good play by the villian, it really puts you to the test. What kind of reputation does the hero have? Maybe the villian has JhTh? Although he's been playing tight, how has he been playing his drawing hands? Maybe he's the type that would call a flop bet w/ a gutshot/backdoor flush draw if he thinks the hero might be strong and he has implied odds. Maybe he had 99 and didn't want to release it hoping he could make a play later and got lucky. Certainly 88 and QQ are possible. Having already limped, he was 3:9.5, which means he SHOULDN'T have 44 hoping only to hit a set. Maybe AhQh...possibly but unlikely Ah8h.

[nlc315]

[ QUOTE ]
You are getting 3-1 pot odds. You are about 18% against 2-pair, 5% against a set, and 0% against a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think JhTh is possible at all?

[sccrneo]

On the flop with the drawless board, what is villain peeling with?

I dont know if this is necessarily JT for the straight but I think that its either AQ which we are way ahead of or some two pair/set.

Although the more I think about it, it does seem like a pair that picked up a flush draw trying to semibluff, like AhQh. But I still dont know if I wanna call here with a hand that is very likely way behind given villain's tight image.

EDIT: Then again, what hands is a tight villain openlimping with that are beating us, AA and QQ? Wow, Im really unsure of how I would play this now.

EDIT AGAIN: The only hand I can possibly see a tight villain limping here that would make sense is JhTh or pp as there arent two pair hands that villain would be limping with.

I still probably scratch my hand and fold this as I cant figure out what villain would have other AQ that we could possibly beat.

[nlc315]

It's definitely one of those mercy ones...I think you're right though about having to fold because you could be way behind. Perhaps more aggression on the flop...but then what, go all in?? Probably not the ideal decision if you're trying to get lots of chips on it. I think AhQh, or QQ...mayyybe 88 or remotely JhTh. He might feel like he's big stacked, and be willing to throw the money in there to see if he improves...but then what's he put the hero on? he's only like...1.5 outs w/ the JhTh senerio...you're right, unlikely if he's tight. I guess I'd probably say AhQh or QQ...

[DarrenX]

Am I playing too much limit? I like a check behind on the turn and evaluate the river- as played I have to fold.

[anteupcowboy]

i would put him on AA or QQ no JhTh for if that was the case do you think he would put him all in on the turn and not try to make the flush at a discounted rate and if he misses he can fold to a river bet, i think hes holding AA QQ maybe even 99 and hit his set or has rockets and sees the flush draw come up on the turn and wants you out incase you have hearts in your hand tough lay down but a good one