Am I the only one at CardCrusade.com?

[TimsterToo]

I saw CardCrusade mentioned in another post and decided to have a look. They are looking for betatesters at the moment and I decided to give it a spin.

It's a site where you pay a monthly subscription instead of rake but for the betatesters there's no charge. (don't have a clue how long that will take!)

In my enthousiasm I transferred 100$ to them but apparantely I'm the only player they have!! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I've logged in a couple of times and the only other 2 players there are always there and also always have the exact same amount of money in front of them (1200$) so I suspect they are bots to help test the software.

Anybody else signed up yet? Fancy a game? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I must say that the idea of a no rake but no other stuff (bonuses etc etc) has a certain appeal to me, my only worry would be if the influx of fish will be high enough seeing as the pro's are more apparant to the calculating thinking player and the con's (monthly fee, no bonuses etc) will probably be more of a decisive factor for the newbies etc.

[TimsterToo]

I mailed CardCrusade to ask them if I maybe was a bit of an early adaptor and where the other players were. I also thought it was the friendly thing to do to foreworn them that they were mentioned on 2+2 so they knew the floodgates were open [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I got a quick reply which I will post below as it has some relevant info in it (I asked permission to do so of course):

Timothy,

Thank you for supporting the site.

As you know, we are currently in Beta and organising various events in order to exercise different aspects of the service. We have not yet gone fully public and haven't initiated a more general marketing campaign.

When we are more than confident that the site and service can withstand the rigours of public use, we will start to market the site very actively.

In the interim period, we are extremely pleased to have players such as yourself spreading the story by word of mouth. This brings in high quality players that are interested in having a real role in developing and supporting the site at this early stage.

We are holding two Freerolls every Friday at 4pm and 9pm EST and usually play ring games before, during and after the tournaments. As we build our client base, we hope to extend those active times.

I have read you post and wanted to clarify two small points. We only started the servers in Mid December and are trying to channel players into certain points of the day when there will be other players...hence the Freerolls. My second point regards the 2-3 players you see at the table, they are very keen players who are logged into tournaments waiting for some other players to come in.

I hope you understand and agree with the way we are building out CardCrusade.com and will continue to support our efforts.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Overdrive]

I signed up there, but I haven't played at their site yet (too busy other places.) The idea of a low or virtually no rake site is very nice and I hope they make a go of it - but the odds are really stacked against them. We'll see how it goes...

[kurosh]

I just signed up... wow what horrible software.

[Gregatron]

I wish the concept of a rakefree site would work. I really don't think it will though -- at least not in this format (you pay a monthly fee). I would much rather pay a fee than rake. But, as we've discussed here before, recreational players either don't know what rake it, or don't think it matters. They will never "pay to play" (which is how they will think of it). Sorry, not trying to player hate.

[Overdrive]

[ QUOTE ]
I wish the concept of a rakefree site would work. I really don't think it will though -- at least not in this format (you pay a monthly fee). I would much rather pay a fee than rake. But, as we've discussed here before, recreational players either don't know what rake it, or don't think it matters. They will never "pay to play" (which is how they will think of it). Sorry, not trying to player hate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are right, the pay to play model won't work. It would be much better if someone offered something like you didn't have to pay any rake after you played 1500 hands a month or something like that. After you first 1500 hands (or whatever #) for the month you get to play rake free for the rest of the month.

[jman220]

Or a site could just come out with a bonus structure that would attract both fish, and people who understood rake. Somethign along the lines of giving people signing up with a new account an option: You can have an account with 75 percent rakeback built in, OR a one time $600 bonus that clears like the one on full tilt. The majority of slobbering fish will elect for the bonus keeping the site profitable, (OMG, $600 FOR FREE!) while the site will attract lots of high volume players who are drawn to the fish and the huge rakeback. Of course, this will never happen, but I can always dream.

[robracing]

The vast majority of the poker playing masses are either looking for bonuses or to feed on the fish. Neither of these scenarios are likely to play out at CardCrusade.

However, as was mentioned on the other thread here yesterday, this model would be ideal for competitions such as KOTZ and other private table play.

It is an unfortunate fact that for somebody to be particularly rake-aware makes them an undesireable opponent for the majority of poker players.

[Robby Box]

How could this possibly work!!!

If they got 2,000 active players all paying $25 a month, they would have a turnover of $50k per month.

How on earth would that pay for Software, Hardware, Support, Wages, Customer Service...?

As for marketing...forget it!!!

Even with 20,000 active players, you would struggle to break even.

Am I missing something here?

[maccamack]

I signed up with Cardcrusade a few weeks ago - mainly because I like the idea of a rake fee site.

I have played in the free rolls they have - which a pretty good value with limited numbers of people.

The players I have come across - about thirty of them, have been pretty good - none of the big holes visible.

The one thing that I have noticed is the variance is much lower without a rake - because you are not leaving that 5% behind when you win.

A bit of a question on theory: if there is no rake does that mean that calls that a marginal at say Pokerroom become profitable with no rake?

Anyways, I really hope that Cardcrusade works - I have spoken to a couple of the guys there and they seem like a nice bunch. I also, think that the community shares part of their offer is quite compelling. It strikes me that if Cardcrusade gets any traction then when of the big sites will have to take them out - meaning the community shares will increase in value. SO if you go to the site - say I referred you - that gives me more shares......lol.

I agree with Gregatron's point about costs - however, if say they get 100,000 players -it will turn 30mln a year, which doesn't make it PartyPoker but does make it a compelling business. At that point, we may find that the rest of the poker sites have to take some notice and give us a fairer deal.