A Preflop Situation

mc123 · #1 01-11-2006, 11:52 PM

Your in the SB in a 10 handed game with AJo.

Unknown new player posts 3 off the button with a 12.21 BB stack in the Party game which is 25 BB default buyin.

BB is a 54.8 VPIP, 3.2 PFR player over the last 60 hands at the table and his AGR is 0.31/0.38/0.67.. at the rate he's playing right now he's losing 20BB per 100 hands.

Folded to unknown and he raises immediately, your plans preflop? your plans on a ragg board?

Edit: BB has never coldcalled 2bets preflop on the table yet.

Terrabon98 · #2 01-12-2006, 12:07 AM

3bet...lead flop...I read this quickly, am I missing something?

SirFelixCat · #3 01-12-2006, 05:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
3bet...lead flop...I read this quickly, am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems standard to me....

stigmata · #4 01-12-2006, 10:01 AM

He's asking if it's better to flat-call and keep the BB in the pot (i.e. because he is the perfect opponent), or just 3-bet and get it HU with the poster who is likely raising light.

I would just 3-bet it, but I think the question has some merits. You really will gain quite a lot of EV from the BB if you keep him in. However, your OOP, and the hand is much easier to play when you 3-bet, get it HU and lead out on the flop.

elindauer · #5 01-12-2006, 11:06 AM

Hi mc,

I like a call, planning to check-raise lots of flops. Here's my thinking:

- a player taking a shot may have a stronger hand than normal when he raises. I suspect he is not raising any 2 here, for example.

- the BB is a great opponent to keep in the game

- your flop check-raise gives you lots of information early in the hand, which you can use to outplay the others. If everyone missed, you likely take it down unimproved. If the BB caught a piece, you'll likely be able to play very well against him on the flop and turn, losing very little when behind while punishing when you hit the flop or caught up on the turn. Similar comments apply to the shortstack taking a shot... he's not likely to make a big move on us, he'll probably play very predictably.

There's a counter-argument that the weak-tight poster may well give up easily so 3-betting and keeping the pressure on is reasonable as well. You'll win more pots this way, but they will tend to be smaller.

my 2 cents.
Eric

mc123 · #6 01-13-2006, 07:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like a call, planning to check-raise lots of flops

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the line I was considering during the hand although I ended up 3betting and the BB called me anyway along with the poster.

I think a serious case can be made ev-wise that just calling could be better in these kind of spots in the long run . 3betting and trying to get HU is +ev in the short term but like eric said if we just call here we're often going to win much larger pots against these two player's range keeping in mind that our postflop play is superior to theirs.

catlover · #7 01-14-2006, 09:27 AM

AJo is not a multiway hand. Therefore I like the 3-bet.

PTjvs · #8 01-14-2006, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
- a player taking a shot may have a stronger hand than normal when he raises. I suspect he is not raising any 2 here, for example.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does a player taking a shot post or wait for BB?

DcifrThs · #9 01-14-2006, 03:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
- a player taking a shot may have a stronger hand than normal when he raises. I suspect he is not raising any 2 here, for example.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does a player taking a shot post or wait for BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

either. some people taking a shot think its best to get 7 hands for 1 blind than 9 hands for 1.5 blinds. some think that they should wait for their big blind so they can play the button. i dont think taking a shot would affect the distribution of posting in the bb (waiting) or posting now (playing) enough to warrant making a read change out of it.

Barron

mc123 · #10 01-14-2006, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
- a player taking a shot may have a stronger hand than normal when he raises. I suspect he is not raising any 2 here, for example.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does a player taking a shot post or wait for BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

either. some people taking a shot think its best to get 7 hands for 1 blind than 9 hands for 1.5 blinds. some think that they should wait for their big blind so they can play the button. i dont think taking a shot would affect the distribution of posting in the bb (waiting) or posting now (playing) enough to warrant making a read change out of it.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there are two classifications for players taking shots. The ones that are doing so with a gambling sense and those with more of a calculated approach, like trying to move up a limit.

When an unknown player sits down with a short buy I think you can immediately get a small read on the player from whether he posts in a proper position/waits for blinds or if he plays right away without waiting.

When an unknown short-buy raises off a post 3 or more off the button in a 10 handed game with less than 10BB I'm quite suspicious of his range and give him less credit for a made hand.