Brass Donkey...That Funky Donkey

[bennyhana]

I seem to be seeing this a lot lately. Unfortunately I've been bouncing around sites and it mostly comes from unknowns. I got no reads on either of these guys. Are these clear folds?

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.5SB, 6 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>, Button folds, BB calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9.25BB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets</font>, hero ????

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) hero is MP1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>, 4 folds, BB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, hero ????

[Str8Fish]

I fold the first one and probably the second as well, since it's a small pot.

[Leobzook]

I doubt MP3 has a 7 in hand 1 but BB is probably on a flush draw so your outs are taitned and I would fold.

Hand two hard to say. I am tempted to call down or raise for a free showdown.

I have generally found that players (especially fish) betting out of position into a paired board usually dont have trips

[ottsville]

Against a poster, I'm kind of lost here too. Villain could be betting any J or two clubs on flop, but him betting out on the turn 7 worries me.

[HouseCalls]

Hand 1: Fold turn.

I wasn't a big fan of the flop raise but that may be a difference in levels. If it will usually get you HU like this in your game then its good.

Hand 2: the turn A doesn't change things much. He was either slowplaying an A on the flop or this is a bluff. Without reads I think its a coin flip whether or not to continue. If you continue I like a raise here. If he's bluffing you may pick up the pot right here or he will likely call behind and check river UI. This costs 2BB - the same as just calling down - but protects your hand if you are in fact ahead on the turn.

I have been advocating this turn raise a lot here lately without much comment from the PoohBah police... Does this mean that I've stumbled across a good line or have you guys been overlooking this?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been advocating this turn raise a lot here lately without much comment from the PoohBah police... Does this mean that I've stumbled across a good line or have you guys been overlooking this?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you decide to continue with this hand it should be for a raise unless villain is a LAG. I do not trust this donk nearly enough to fold the turn, so let's raise it up!

[bozlax]

I'm not sure I see any point in raising the flop in hand one. You have no reason to believe that you're going to be able to buy the button (since he cold-called preflop), and that puts you OOP to at least one player so you're less likely to be able to get a free card. I think I smooth-call the flop bet and re-evaluate on the turn, but likely folding UI. twiwp, pretty easy fold.

Hand 2 is, imo, closer. This looks more like a play, and less like an ace. I think a better pp would have 3-bet preflop, and an ace would likely have c/r'd the flop, so I'm calling this one down. I'd put him on a seven or eight plus a broadway (Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], for instance).

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I see any point in raising the flop in hand one. You have no reason to believe that you're going to be able to buy the button (since he cold-called preflop), and that puts you OOP to at least one player

[/ QUOTE ]
I would call tons of hands preflop that I would fold for 2 cold on the flop. Applying his preflop play on the flop might be a quick and easy way of analyzing a hand, but it's hardly the way to do it. However, I peel the flop and fold the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 is, imo, closer. This looks more like a play, and less like an ace. I think a better pp would have 3-bet preflop, and an ace would likely have c/r'd the flop, so I'm calling this one down. I'd put him on a seven or eight plus a broadway (Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], for instance).

[/ QUOTE ]
Without a laggy read I raise/fold this turn. Makes him fold bluffs and in this case we want him to fold bluffs since he's likely holding 6 outs.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Without a laggy read I raise/fold this turn. Makes him fold bluffs and in this case we want him to fold bluffs since he's likely holding 6 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Housecalls said something similar, and I think it's nuts from both of you. Why do you want him to fold a 6-outer in a 4-bet pot? Why do you think he WILL fold a 6-outer, having bet into you? If he checked to you, again, I can see bet/folding the turn, but raise/folding the turn is just spew.

[deleteduser]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I see any point in raising the flop in hand one. You have no reason to believe that you're going to be able to buy the button (since he cold-called preflop), and that puts you OOP to at least one player so you're less likely to be able to get a free card. I think I smooth-call the flop bet and re-evaluate on the turn, but likely folding UI. twiwp, pretty easy fold.

Hand 2 is, imo, closer. This looks more like a play, and less like an ace. I think a better pp would have 3-bet preflop, and an ace would likely have c/r'd the flop, so I'm calling this one down. I'd put him on a seven or eight plus a broadway (Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], for instance).

[/ QUOTE ]


my feelings exactly