See, Here's The Thing...

[Grunch]

Go ahead an criticize PF if you feel compelled to. But if you do then you have to say something constructive about postflop.

Edit: (Somehow this didn't make it to my post) The opponents are terrible, in every sense. I'm shocked how bad they are.


Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $13.45
Button: $9.40
Hero: $37.35
BB: $26.40

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls $0.25, Button folds, <font color="#cc3333">Hero raises to $1.35</font>, BB calls $1, UTG folds.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($2.95, 2 players)
<font color="#cc3333">Hero bets $2.5</font>, <font color="#cc3333">BB raises to $5</font>, <font color="#cc3333">Hero raises all-in $36.1</font> ...

Before you say you love it, consider stacks. The opponent has $20 more behind when I push.

Before you say you hate it, consider how many outs I have &amp; what my equity is.

Lemme have it...

[Isura]

Zero FE + worst hand + probably worst draw -&gt; Fold flop.

[Grunch]

I'd probasbly agree with zero FE, or close to it.

But there is a decent chance (~30%) that I have the best hand here, and my draw is almost certianly the best draw (~70%). I mean, these guys are really terrible. An opponent at this table might minraise me with just an ace non-spade.

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
Zero FE + worst hand + probably worst draw -&gt; Fold flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

somehow i may have thought that I had a gutshot to go with my fd... can't really remember... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Rosie5]

I don't like the flop continuation bet

Pot control anyone? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] He has enough money behind that I would try to keep the pot small until I get there.

I think checking the flop and calling a bet leaves a lot of better options like checkraising the turn when you hit 2 pr, or calling down your flush if he likes to fire a lot

You're building a big pot with a marginal hand by continuation betting, I don't likey. If he's as bad as you say, keep the pot small until you have your hand then pump it

If he calls, the pot is so unwieldy on the turn that if you miss, you check he bets you fold--BAD

[matrix]

hmmmmm .....

I have been playing like a crazy LAG fool the past few days - just to see what happens when you play all maniacal - and I am amazed by how much you can push your average table round before they start playing back at you with dodgy hands.

I have been playing hands like the OP's pretty much exactly the same. I like the push - but - only if it's being used for some setup kind of purpose. If the players are as terrible as you point out - then they probably won't notice what we are doing so setting anything up is a waste of time and resources.

If villain is weak sauced enough to fold here often then I think it's a goot play - but we almost certainly have the worst hand.

Personally if I am going to play a hand OOP for a raise - it wants to be a better hand than Q8o - I'd much rather play 78o or Q8s here.

Rosie5: - I like the flop cont bet - I imagine the OP is the type to CB a lot - and not CBetting here (or making a move thats very out of character for your table image) throws up a red flag and starts dinging alarm bells in even the most clueless villains ears. So if OP image to date at this table is one that CB's frequently I think we have to CB this flop - after all we raised PF OOP.

[djoyce003]

Not sure Grunch. One mark of bad players is that they can't fold top pair. That's probably what you are up against here in the best case scenario. In the worst case you are either up against a made flush, which kills some of your outs, or you are up against a similar hand to yours with a better draw. The potential exists that he's raising with the naked ace....but if he's as bad as you say, will he raise a draw? Lots of bad players won't do that.

For me the chances are too high that you are up against something like AJ or KJ with a better spade draw. I'm really not sure you are ahead of his range here.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]


Rosie5: - I like the flop cont bet - I imagine the OP is the type to CB a lot - and not CBetting here (or making a move thats very out of character for your table image) throws up a red flag and starts dinging alarm bells in even the most clueless villains ears. So if OP image to date at this table is one that CB's frequently I think we have to CB this flop - after all we raised PF OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a good reason to continuation bet.

[Grunch]

To be clear, I didn't CB for metagame or image purposes. I CBed for value + draw equity.

[4_2_it]

Why get tricky at this level? There are better LAGgy starting hands to play against terrible players.

Were you trying to channel AJ?