Straighten a few things out

[mervhage]

First of all, enough with the tired phrase "ant-semitic" anytime someone wants to disagree with Israel. As a matter a fact, a man smarter than I once said, "If you're called an anti-semite, then you're winning the argument". Palestinians are semitic people as well. In fact, we are original semites.

Second of all, Israel started "terrorism" back in the '30s or so. It is well documented, so look it up. Israel has done it all before we ever picked up arms in resistance. However, I do condemn suicide bombings. In fact, I condemn all forms of terrorism. Please recognize that suicide bombs never helped the Palestinian Cause. It always served Israeli agenda and pushing their offensive strategy forward. This is why I'm convinced Israel had a hand in suicide bombings. Don't believe me? Hamas was created by the Mossad in direct opposition to Arafat's PLO Party. Israel needs an excuse to do something, bomb goes off, problem solved, you figure it out.

Also, the majority of you are not educated in the history of the conflict, from the beginning up until today. Seriously, how many Americans know their own HIStory??? This is why I give zero credibility to those who arrogantly post without knowing the whole story.

Here's a quick quiz, no cheating!
1: Name at least two gangs that were responsible for terrorizing Palestinians prior to the creation of Israel?

2: What is the name of the secret document that was written that promised Israel a homeland in Palestine and by whom was it composed? What year?

3. What year did the UN divise the Partition Scheme?

4. Name the Empire which we were under rule from and what year did it collapse?

Bonus Question
5. How many of you had families kicked out of their homes by Israelis with machine guns while their grandfather was forced to flee north into Lebanon with 8 kids and no money and leave his business and life behind?

Our own leaders sold us out (Arafat and co.) for money. Palestinians held fair elections and voted in Hamas, b/c we're tired of the corruption from Fatah. Bottom line.

99% of human beings want peaceful lives and safe neighborhoods to raise their children in, while providing them a good life. Period. We are no different. We were kicked out of our homes and massacred. Six decades later and nothing has changed?

I'm sure there's more I wanted to say, but it's like 4 in the morning and I'm tired.

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Please recognize that suicide bombs never helped the Palestinian Cause. It always served Israeli agenda

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really believe the words that come out of your mouth?

Edit: Hadn't gotten this far yet

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I'm convinced Israel had a hand in suicide bombings.

[/ QUOTE ]

No point in arguing with someone this ridiculously out there.

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Please recognize that suicide bombs never helped the Palestinian Cause. It always served Israeli agenda and pushing their offensive strategy forward.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't like Israeli policies I have no problem with that. But I have a problem with the logic above. So you are saying that the Israelis like the idea of blowing up a bunch of kids eating pizza. If that's the case, why do they try so hard to stop it? Why don't they start blowing up their citizens left and right and kill and mangle as many of their own people as they can?

MM

[SNOWBALL]

Hi Mason,

I think the logic is ok. Its not hard to imagine a government trying to terrify their citizens into supporting otherwise untenable policies. One of the defense planners in the JFK government had a plan to fly an unmanned aircraft over cuba and then explode it and claim that it was a commercial flight shot down by Castro. This was never carried out though.

That said, I strongly disagree with the assessment that the Israeli govt desires suicide bombings. Its true they helped create hamas, but that was a while ago. They funded hamas so they could undermine fatah. Hamas started a long time before suicide bombings became as common as they are now.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't believe me? Hamas was created by the Mossad in direct opposition to Arafat's PLO Party. Israel needs an excuse to do something, bomb goes off, problem solved, you figure it out.



[/ QUOTE ]

Israel wanted to undermine fatah, not get blown up. Its true they helped create hamas, but I doubt that they intended for hamas to do what it does. Remember, hamas was created long before suicide bombings because common.
The more traditional pre-oslo method of fighting Israeli occupation was done by labor strikes or attacks on soldiers. Labor strikes are no longer an option. Since the fall of the soviet union, the influx of jews into Israel led to palestinians losing their jobs in Israel.

Whats the unemployment rate in gaza/west bank? 50 percent? More?

[Howard Beale]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please recognize that suicide bombs never helped the Palestinian Cause. It always served Israeli agenda and pushing their offensive strategy forward.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't like Israeli policies I have no problem with that. But I have a problem with the logic above. So you are saying that the Israelis like the idea of blowing up a bunch of kids eating pizza. If that's the case, why do they try so hard to stop it? Why don't they start blowing up their citizens left and right and kill and mangle as many of their own people as they can?

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Additionally, why do the Palestinians 'accomodate' the Israelis by committing suicide bombings if they are so 'helpful' to the Israeli cause?

Btw, OP, my maternal grandmother was chased out of Ukraine by the Cossacks along with the rest of her family. Her sister was shot to death in the middle of the night while fleeing across a frozen river. None of my family ever returned with a bomb under their jacket.

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, why do the Palestinians 'accomodate' the Israelis by committing suicide bombings if they are so 'helpful' to the Israeli cause?

[/ QUOTE ]

The Palestinians have repeatedly demonstrated political stupidity. One of the most persecuted set of people on the planet have virtually no sympathy in many quarters. The Palestinian leadership is without a doubt politically stupid.

It is helpful to the cause as it generates sympathy for Israel and its ambition of a greater Israel.

Israel does not actively help Palestinians bomb Israel. Israel helps by promoting instability in the Palestinian government, by ensuring that they have little resources to do anything for their peoples and by regularly destroying the infrastructure.

I posted a question earlier (different thred) where I asked if Israel would be happy if all the guerrilla fighters ans suicide bombers in Palestine moved to Mars and left the people living in Palestine for Israel to take care of as Israeli's, would Israel be happy? Can you answer that question?

[SNOWBALL]

I'll bite

[ QUOTE ]
1: Name at least two gangs that were responsible for terrorizing Palestinians prior to the creation of Israel?

[/ QUOTE ]

Haganah, Irgun, and the Stern gang.

[ QUOTE ]
2: What is the name of the secret document that was written that promised Israel a homeland in Palestine and by whom was it composed? What year?


[/ QUOTE ]

Balfour declaration. 1915?

[ QUOTE ]
3. What year did the UN divise the Partition Scheme?

[/ QUOTE ]

1947?

[ QUOTE ]
4. Name the Empire which we were under rule from and what year did it collapse?


[/ QUOTE ]

Ottomans. Collapsed in 1918 I think.

[ QUOTE ]
5. How many of you had families kicked out of their homes by Israelis with machine guns while their grandfather was forced to flee north into Lebanon with 8 kids and no money and leave his business and life behind?


[/ QUOTE ]

AFAIK, most people on this board are white, and americans; myself included.

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please recognize that suicide bombs never helped the Palestinian Cause. It always served Israeli agenda and pushing their offensive strategy forward.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't like Israeli policies I have no problem with that. But I have a problem with the logic above. So you are saying that the Israelis like the idea of blowing up a bunch of kids eating pizza. If that's the case, why do they try so hard to stop it? Why don't they start blowing up their citizens left and right and kill and mangle as many of their own people as they can?

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he means in the same way 9-11 helped the Bush agenda. I think far more people believe it did, than believe he would have helped orchestrate it.

[mervhage]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll bite

[ QUOTE ]
1: Name at least two gangs that were responsible for terrorizing Palestinians prior to the creation of Israel?

[/ QUOTE ]

Haganah, Irgun, and the Stern gang.

[ QUOTE ]
2: What is the name of the secret document that was written that promised Israel a homeland in Palestine and by whom was it composed? What year?


[/ QUOTE ]

Balfour declaration. 1915?

[ QUOTE ]
3. What year did the UN divise the Partition Scheme?

[/ QUOTE ]

1947?

[ QUOTE ]
4. Name the Empire which we were under rule from and what year did it collapse?


[/ QUOTE ]

Ottomans. Collapsed in 1918 I think.

[ QUOTE ]
5. How many of you had families kicked out of their homes by Israelis with machine guns while their grandfather was forced to flee north into Lebanon with 8 kids and no money and leave his business and life behind?


[/ QUOTE ]

AFAIK, most people on this board are white, and americans; myself included.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I am impressed. Two things. Balfour Declaration was written in 1917 and the Ottoman Empire fell a few years ago. Nonetheless, you know your stuff and again I'm am impressed.

I had to teach myself my own HIStory, b/c American schools HIStory is a joke.