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  #1  
Old 03-07-2006, 12:26 PM
fairnbalncd fairnbalncd is offline
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Default 2/4 KK - Reads and odds collide?

UTG is a huge LAG and UTG+2 is sLA-P with many hands on each other.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

UTG has raised and called caps preflop with Ax and small pockets. UTG+2's 3 bet tells me he has a hand JJ+ or AK. I cap.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 caps</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

UTG's check is typical. UTG+2's cr is not. UTG+2 is PASSIVE post flop. His cap of my 3 bet tells me he has a huge hand AA/KK, most likely AA, and he has no fear of my hand whatsoever. UTG following along concerns me now. He has hit something as well.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Hero folds.

UTG leads into known raisers? Straight? Set? Two pair? Is UTG thinking UTG+2 and I are on big cards and the flop missed us? He has to know we are on big pairs by now and he hasn't played a draw this way before. I read UTG for hitting his low sooted connectors ala Hanson or Tuan Le, or even flopping a set. UTG+2 I'm putting on KK and most likely AA. I hate giving up my Kings. Folding seems terrible. Raising feels like it'll be spewing. Calling sucks too, so I call 2 bets getting just over 7.5:1 hoping UTG doesn't reraise. He does and I feel like there is too much action going on, I feel like I'm way behind so I fold for "one more bet" and hate myself.

I need a red King, a one outer, and I could still be behind a straight.

River: (20.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+2 calls.

A King hit and I freaked.

The hand happened so quickly. I felt I maybe should have folded on the Turn. I felt like folding for one more bet was a horrible play, but I also felt MHING.

Final Pot: 22.75 BB

Now I wait to see the showdown which doesn't matter as I'm not sure if I played the hand the way it should have been played. I tell myself I'm done for the day regardless of what is shown down.

I've played well the past few days but this hand had me totally screwed up in the head.

Did I take this hand too far by calling 2 bets on the Turn? Would you 3 bet? Without knowing the King hits the River, can you justify calling a 3rd bet? Are you now behind a straight or a flush? Are your Kings good without the River King?

I hated this hand and haven't played for two days thinking about it. Kick my @ss here if need be. I can hear MK hollering you got two effing Kings in a large pot! PROTECT IT!
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2006, 12:50 PM
gopnik gopnik is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 KK - Reads and odds collide?

I am folding this turn...seriously. UTG-2 scares the hell out of me. I don't think he's got QQ or JJ. Now, looks like UTG caught something big if he bets into 2 flop cappers.
I fold.
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  #3  
Old 03-07-2006, 01:09 PM
Duerig Duerig is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 KK - Reads and odds collide?

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+2 is PASSIVE post flop. His cap of my 3 bet tells me he has a huge hand AA/KK, most likely AA, and he has no fear of my hand whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

This + facing 2 bets on the turn + not closing the action makes me want to fold the turn.
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  #4  
Old 03-07-2006, 02:20 PM
Elevens Elevens is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 KK - Reads and odds collide?

Yeah, fold the turn.
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  #5  
Old 03-07-2006, 02:20 PM
archeyne archeyne is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 KK - Reads and odds collide?

fold the turn, but dont beat yourself up to much.
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2006, 02:34 PM
Merlin27 Merlin27 is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 KK - Reads and odds collide?

First the turn fold is pretty clear for me.
Second I dont cry because of the 3rd K, because for me it looks like even 3 Ks are not enough in this pot. If 3 Ks win, then both of your opponents are maniacs, which you did not describe.
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2006, 11:57 PM
five4suited five4suited is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 KK - Reads and odds collide?

As the hand played out, I would have folded to two on the turn. If it was a single bet to you, however, I could see calling down, thinking that UTG probably has a set or the straight, but he could also have A4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or A3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and that you're going to make UTG+2 show you aces. If you had QQ instead, it's an easy fold.

Am I wrong for thinking that calling a single bet could be correct?

I've tried to make a big laydown of kings assuming my opponent had aces like three times, and of course was wrong twice. So now when that happens, I'm paying you off or you're paying me. In any case, did you see what happened?
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