This Is Why You NEVER Play KQ

Rookcifer · #1 10-19-2007, 04:25 PM

KQ is a worthless hand, especially at a tight table. It almost invariably makes the second best hand when a K or a Q flops. The only value it has is for a flush or two pair, but when you make the flush you often make second best flush, and as far as two pair, you are just as likely to make 2 pair with 7-2 as you are KQ.

I know you will say I overplay it, but just exactly when do you fold KQ if a K flops on a rainbow board with 2 undercards? I have had so many people go all in with K9 or K10, which is why I am reluctant to fold. However, from now on I will fold the hand pre-flop in any position. It is just a hand that will get me in trouble. This goes for both KQ and KQs. KQ is my second most expensive hand, next to AK. I lose the most money with AK and second most with KQ. I am in the green with 40 hands, and in the red with the rest. Is this normal? Should I be in the green with more than 40 hands when I play at about 15% VPIP?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($6.60)
UTG ($9.40)
UTG+1 ($7.85)
Hero ($4.65)
MP2 ($10.65)
MP3 ($6.50)
CO ($10.10)
Button ($12)
SB ($9.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.4, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40, 3 folds.

Flop: ($1.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $1.1, MP3 calls $1.10, CO folds.

Turn: ($3.55) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3.15 (All-In), MP3 calls $3.15.

River: ($0) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $9.85

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qh Kh (two pair, kings and fives).
MP3 has Ks Kd (full house, kings full of fives).
Outcome: MP3 wins $9.85. 

hand 2

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($6.65)
Hero ($8.30)
BB ($2.55)
UTG ($3.95)
MP1 ($32)
MP2 ($22.10)
CO ($9.45)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO raises to $0.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.45, BB calls $0.40.

Flop: ($1.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $1.5, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, CO raises to $8.95, Hero calls $4.80 (All-In).

Turn: ($17.10) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($17.10) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $17.10

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qs Ks (one pair, kings).
CO has As Ah (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: CO wins $18.25. 

hand 3

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($3)
BB ($2.55)
UTG ($12.10)
UTG+1 ($6.70)
MP1 ($10.80)
MP2 ($10.20)
Hero ($8)
Button ($3.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.10, UTG+1 raises to $0.2, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.20, Hero (poster) raises to $0.5, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.40, UTG+1 calls $0.30, MP2 calls $0.30.

Flop: ($2.15) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.9, MP2 folds, Hero calls $0.90, UTG calls $0.90.

Turn: ($4.85) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $1.2, Hero raises to $2.4, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1.20.

River: ($9.65) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $9.65

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Kc Ac (two pair, kings and fives).
Hero has Ks Qd (two pair, kings and fives).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $9.65.

PJo336 · #2 10-19-2007, 04:27 PM

not ev1 overplays it, its a big winner in my db

Lego05 · #3 10-19-2007, 04:31 PM

Reload pre-flop.

First hand is fine.

Second hand sucks:
Mostly either fold or reraise pre-flop. As played your check min-raise on flop is terrible. I think I like check call - I'm rarely in this position since I don't call pre-flop there like ever.

Third hand is real bad:
Fold pre-flop...unless you have some reason for squeezing here...but that's probably very veyr rarely good to do at 10NL.

As played fold to the flop donk....you have nothing and there are players behind you.

As played your turn min-raise sucks....raise bigger.

River is only street played well.

Also...Full Ring Forum:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/po...0&Board=FR

Edit: AK and KQ should both be profitable hands over a good sample size.

2nd edit: DIdn't even notice you posted in the CO in hand 3. Don't post. Just wait for your big blind to come around.

C4LL4W4Y · #4 10-19-2007, 04:31 PM

you should fix the title...This Is How You Don't Play KQ. you're sitting with under 50bbs in hand one and you raise it from EP at a full ring table, which in combination is pretty horrendous.

in hand 2 you stack off after getting your minraise b/3b, pretty bad.

and hand 3,you post in the co and try to squeeze a minraiser/caller, not horrible imo. but check fold that flop.

SIT WITH 100 BBs.

this has got to be another level.

Genesis · #5 10-19-2007, 04:32 PM

Hand 1, whatever, you had less than half stack, he slow played you, it happens.

Hand 2, if you c/r the flop you have to fold to the all-in, you're obviously beat.

Hand 3, I hate the 3bet preflop. I wouldn't 3bet without a solid read and if I were to 3bet it would be much bigger. You have nothing on the flop and are not getting odds to draw.

willyc · #6 10-19-2007, 04:35 PM

KQ is in my 15 highest winning hands at 6max. Just don't play it for huge pots with only one pair or without a good read on your opponent and it should serve you well.

wingchunflush · #7 10-19-2007, 04:39 PM

If i am playing kq oop i will re raise occasionally I find out quick if I am up against AK or better

Worm75 · #8 10-19-2007, 04:40 PM

Result oriented much??

BTW, other than hand 1, the other 2 were butchered

And why are you buying in short?

buttonpusher · #9 10-19-2007, 04:41 PM

KQ is a winning hand for me. Stop overplaying it maybe?

Dimitzu · #10 10-19-2007, 04:49 PM

First one is perfect.

On the second one I would either fold or reraise pre. The way you played it I would fold to the push after your check-raise.

On the third one I would just call preflop and fold on the flop. Your hand is pretty much worthless at this point.

And I wouldn`t post.