line check - $100 NL - top 2 OOP on drawy board HU

The Student · #1 10-13-2007, 04:31 PM

Villian was pretty new to the table, so no real read yet. When I c/red the turn he took a long time to call and I figured as long as the turn wasn't another spade I could push and get him to fold some kind of hand like pair/draw (like J/10), two pair (8/9), or maybe even a set. I wasn't too worried about him having the flush already or the nut straight, but I'm not folding on the turn if he 4-bets - I'll make a crying call hoping to hit a 4 outer.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (8 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 ($101)
MP1 ($99.80)
Hero ($217)
CO ($145.65)
Button ($131.35)
SB ($99)
BB ($244.30)
UTG ($178.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, CO calls $3.50, 3 folds.

Flop: ($8.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $6, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($20.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $14, Hero raises to $60, CO calls $46.

River: ($140.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $80 (putting villian AI)

Thoughts on my turn and river line?

forestwithin · #2 10-13-2007, 11:22 PM

I wouldn't try to get people to try to fold sets, because that is a hard thing for people to do. Why did you check/call the flop? You have a pretty good hand but it's hard to respond to people when you take a strange line like raising pre, then check/calling, then check/raising. By the river, most draws have hit, and since he called your turn raise, I'd have to assume he is strong. The only thing youre ahead of by the river is like 8 9 or 9 10, unless this guy called the turn raise with one pair and maybe a high spade. However, you are behind sets, flushes, and straights. If you want to represent a flush and get him to make a hero fold with a good hand (something I don't recommend doing) then why not just lead out the turn instead of having to raise such a huge amount with little info as to where you stand?

Johnes Benjamin · #3 10-13-2007, 11:39 PM

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I wouldn't try to get people to try to fold sets, because that is a hard thing for people to do.

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It should be pretty easy to get someone to fold worse than a str8 here.
If you are just trying to take this pot down I would prefer leading the turn and then making a huge overbet on the river. It will look like the classic "I want to to think I'm trying to buy a split pot but really I have you beat"
It depends a lot on villain, but I think most people at this level should get away from a J to such a line, maybe even AJ.

Albert Moulton · #4 10-14-2007, 01:05 AM

Fold preflop. With 2 people between you and the button, and at an 8-person table with pretty deep stacks, I just don't see the value in trying to steal the blinds, or play for TPWK or get your self into marginal 2-pair situations like this one for a lot of chips OOP.

I suspect that in the long run at a FR table that you'd do better to fold this preflop.

As played, I think a cb on the flop for 6 planning to fold to a big raise would be better than c/c.

But, if you c/c the flop, then I'm not sure why you wouldn't do the same on the turn. Bet/fold the turn would be OK. And c/c might be OK if you think villain might bluff at the scare-card spade. But your c/r seems like spew since all kinds of draws just got there for villain, including the flush draw. Plus villain might have a set or a straight.

On the river, you are basically turning your 2-pair into a bluff to scare off straights and sets by representing a flush. Given the small size of the bet relative to the pot, I don't think you will succeed at folding anything that beats you, and he'd have to be very bad to get this far with a hand that isn't better than yours.

mr.bum · #5 10-14-2007, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hero checks, CO bets $14, Hero raises to $60, CO calls $46.

River: ($140.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $80 (putting villian AI)

Thoughts on my turn and river line?

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

solvine · #6 10-14-2007, 07:55 AM

i would never c/c flop. Why raise it pf, if when u hit ur pair, ur going to check??? it is not as if u have a dry board, and are representing a monster. any monster bets out that hand.

the turn card was a good card for you to bluff completing both the staright and teh flush. i dont think he is calling ur turn with worse than a set/2 pair looking to boat. ur line does look v.fishy considering u raised pf.

solvine · #7 10-14-2007, 07:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]

On the river, you are basically turning your 2-pair into a bluff to scare off straights and sets by representing a flush. Given the small size of the bet relative to the pot, I don't think you will succeed at folding anything that beats you, and he'd have to be very bad to get this far with a hand that isn't better than yours.

[/ QUOTE ]