Nl25 - Bad place to c-bet?

Ironic · #1 10-11-2007, 08:28 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($25.70)
MP1 ($24.80)
MP2 ($17.30)
CO ($4.45)
Hero ($25.15)
SB ($30.15)
BB ($13.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75, MP2 calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75.

Flop: ($4.10) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, CO bets $0.25, Hero raises to $4, BB folds, MP2 folds, CO calls $3.20 (All-In).

Turn: ($11) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($11) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $11
-------------------------
I was expecting everyone to fold except maybe the shortstack. If one of the big stacks called I could shut down on the turn if none of my outs hit.

I normally cbet with three or less opponents, is 4 too many?

No stats, new table. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Thanks.

AlexB182 · #2 10-11-2007, 08:39 AM

First, there is no CB in this hand. Villain donked the flop you raised him.
To the hand: first I have to admit I don't like the PF raise, A9s would be ok but A9os is just too weak against two limpers with one being short anyway.
Flop raise is ok for me, you have a good chance to take the pot down right here and probably 8 clean outs for the straight (if he has not flopped it already, strange things happen now and then) and maybe even your A is good. Besides, he could even b/c with some strange hand like J9, K9 and you're even in front right now. Who knows the weird thoughs of SSers at NL25...

Ironic · #3 10-11-2007, 08:52 AM

Is this flop bet only good because of fold equity? Suppose everytime in this situation the short stack gets cards which he deems to be within his calling range ie he calls everytime and everyone else folds... If he doesn't have ace ace I probably have 11 outs on turn and river adding to 22 which is good...

If for example you knew short stack was a maniac who didn't like folding is it still a good bet? Or should I make that flop bet as a cbet whenever? Is 4 players generally too many to cbet assumming they are unknowns or is 5 a better cut off point as a rule of thumb when you have missed the flop and are not sure when to cbet?

No need to answer all those points, any kind of answers/tips are great. Thanks.

threads13 · #4 10-11-2007, 08:53 AM

I don't think it is very good as you probably don't have much fold equity considering this guys stack. Your EV from the semi-bluff is probably less than the EV of taking your implied odds.

Fiasco · #5 10-11-2007, 09:23 AM

ummmm... sorry, cant focus on the flop play, the preflop is just too distracting.

Not really too sure why you are raising this trash hand. Maybe to make everybody fold and steal the money from blinds and limpers? If so, why are you making it only 4 bb after two limpers? 4bb + 1bb per limper, yo.

As is youre basically making a pot sweetener with a negative implied odds hand.

Yuck

Artsemis · #6 10-11-2007, 09:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ummmm... sorry, cant focus on the flop play, the preflop is just too distracting.

Not really too sure why you are raising this trash hand. Maybe to make everybody fold and steal the money from blinds and limpers? If so, why are you making it only 4 bb after two limpers? 4bb + 1bb per limper, yo.

As is youre basically making a pot sweetener with a negative implied odds hand.

Yuck

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. Make it $1.50 or fold preflop.

AlexB182 · #7 10-11-2007, 09:40 AM

Ironic, sorry, but it's a little tough to answer your questions as you're mixing up the terms which makes it a little tough to understand what your heading to.

"Or should I make that flop bet as a cbet whenever?"

You're talking about your flop RAISE, right?
Just to get that clear, you did not make a CB in this hand.
A CB means you are the PF raiser and then BET again on the flop. Indeed for many good players CBs are kind of mandatory if they were the PF aggressor. In your case, there was a minbet by another player before you were to act.
Generally, if you ve been the PF raiser, you should CB most of the times against one or two callers, especially IP. But this is in fact very villain and flop dependant.
There was a good link in a different thread about CBing a few days ago, someone able to find it?

Landlord79 · #8 10-11-2007, 09:42 AM

A-9o is bad, raise more pf if you are going to raise!

3 is too many to CBet into, esp at these limits. Raise is goot on the flop, take your free card on the turn if the villain isn't someone who will fold regualarly to more betting.

threads13 · #9 10-11-2007, 09:59 AM

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, so don't take it that way.

Ironic, have you read any poker books yet?

Ironic · #10 10-11-2007, 10:07 AM

Yes Threads.

What you say about negative implied odds, remember the hand as played I didn't know at the time the short stack would call and the others would fold. Very easily the short stack could have folded to pressure and a big stack called.