I need a BS detector

cheburashka · #1 10-10-2007, 12:20 PM

I’ve been playing like crap and feel like I’m in awkward spot after awkward spot—all my good drawing hands have been in EP or MP, my 99/TT/JJ have faced two overs, etc. Overall, I’m at 21/13/1.6 (over the past week or so, I’ve managed to average about 22/16/3, but today I just seem to be in these c/c situations all the time). Villain is loose/passive (32/10/0.6).

UTG (4696 in chips)
UTG+1 (8359 in chips)
MP1 (5421 in chips)
MP2 (4332 in chips)
HJ (3250 in chips)
CO (8265 in chips)
BU (6878 in chips)
Hero (2799 in chips)
BB (4284 in chips)

Blinds are 100/200; Hero is SB with 6c 8s

Two folds, MP1 calls 200, one fold, HJ calls 200, CO calls 200, one fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

To me, completing here is a bit loose, even counting on 9:1. But I’m trying to get something going in a frustrating and boring tourney. My plan is to fold if BB raises, and to c/f any flop that isn’t a good draw or two pair.

Flop (1000) 4c Qd 6s

Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, HJ checks, CO bets 600, Hero???

Since CO has been so passive, I suppose he could have something here. But it also seems a bit of a coincidence that the guy in position is the one to have something. I always feel as though I’m being taken advantage of in positions like this, but I’ve got such a weak hand that I can’t do anything about it.

Thoughts?

sapsuckah · #2 10-10-2007, 12:36 PM

I'd only complete the SB here with a deeper stack. Even getting 9:1, I don't like giving away 1/2 a BB when I only have 14 to begin with. I'd rather preserve the chips to have more FE when I have an opportunity to open-push. Plus, if I end up doubling up, that 100 you gave away here would have become 200.

So I'd fold preflop. Depending on your reads, pushing preflop here might not be a terrible play either as you will fold out the limpers most of the time and will likely have two live cards if you do get a call.

As played, fold to the CO's bet... sometimes even if you're pretty confident it's BS, you're still not strong enough to look him up.

Dunkman · #3 10-10-2007, 03:40 PM

I'm not sure I like the PF shove, mainly because CO will be last to act and he can really afford to call us with all sorts of hands. Here's the thing, this is a very normal flop for a hand like 86o. What you usually hit with this hand is middle pair or bottom pair. If you are confused in this spot, you don't need to be calling here in the SB. I assume you called PF trying to hit an OESD or 2 pair, and you missed, so fold. Calling CO's flop bet with your stack size is just not an option, so you can either fold or shove into 4 people, one of which bet the flop and has a ton of chips.

cheburashka · #4 10-10-2007, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I like the PF shove, mainly because CO will be last to act and he can really afford to call us with all sorts of hands. Here's the thing, this is a very normal flop for a hand like 86o. What you usually hit with this hand is middle pair or bottom pair. If you are confused in this spot, you don't need to be calling here in the SB. I assume you called PF trying to hit an OESD or 2 pair, and you missed, so fold. Calling CO's flop bet with your stack size is just not an option, so you can either fold or shove into 4 people, one of which bet the flop and has a ton of chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Dunkman, you continue to be one of my favorite posters.

I did fold. It's just that after the fourth or fifth time my medium SC pre-flop turns into a low/medium pair weak kicker post flop and I have to fold to what I am sure is air half the time, I feel like I need to take a shower.

wizard · #5 10-10-2007, 04:08 PM

I don't mind the limp with your rag because of your hit it hard or run limitations. Now you have hit it VERY easy and are waffling on your limitations because the bettor has position. If he doesn't have you beat, he probably has 6 or more outs and don't forget all those potential check raisers behind you. Don't even think twice - toss this mess and get onto the next hand.

BarryLyndon · #6 10-10-2007, 04:41 PM

Just let this go preflop. If you are going to tilt or start to play bad, do it like I do. It's more satisfying:

1. Sign up for the 24+2 PLO tournament on Full Tilt at 9:15pm. If you PM me beforehand and goad me enough, I may sign up with you and we can prop bet as to who gets knocked out first (I'll win).

2. Wait until your one gappers are suited before limping in with them. Get it in on any board with lows. If you want to really get creative, pretend an ace is a low (fyi, it is in some games).

3. Push like a beast from MP1+ with connectors. They are connectors, and scott fischman says they are better and more dangerous to push with than A-rag.

4. Resteal with 8s9s and the ilk a few times.

That should help solve your problems, make you realize how [censored] these hands are, and get you to playing solid anymore. If you are going to start to play sucky, do it on the deep end, not by limping with 86o.

Barry

Sherman · #7 10-10-2007, 05:31 PM

Fold the flop.

Fold PF as well. I would complete here if I were suited though.

SengioKang · #8 10-10-2007, 07:36 PM

ugh 9:1 on this offsuit garbage preflop w/ a low M is just asking for trouble. like they say, u're gonna hit mid pr... flop a straight 1/20 and you don't have the stack equity to make up for the gamble. get off of the hines ward aka ketchup hand (also same value as 57)... preflop or prepared to be 86'd out of the tourney. at this point w/ an M<10 u're in push fold mode...and it's better to be acting first than after 5 people limp.

the cutoff could have practically anything as well as the other 5 in the hand. RUN AWAY....

if u're going to do anything "stupid" preflop, it's better to go out firing an all-in against the weakie limpers on a steal attempt.

SengioKang · #9 10-10-2007, 07:42 PM

i love barry's posts... i always laugh

Sherman · #10 10-10-2007, 07:48 PM

BTW,

As per the title. You don't really need a BS detector in this spot. There just isn't any profitable way to play your hand. You are out of "relative" position. The fact that he could have air is inconsequential because your hand isn't strong enough in a multi-way pot with more people to act behind you. You just aren't going to get HU enough, pick off enough bluffs (b/c his bluff frequency is reduced b/c it is multi-way), and not get outdrawn enough (even if you are ahead, you aren't that far ahead) to show a profit here.

I mean, even if you do call and everyone else folds, what are you going to do on the turn? You still have bad absolute position and a very marginal hand that doesn't expect to gain much value on the turn/river if you are ahead anyway.

Sherman