AK preflop all-ins

Jailblazers · #1 10-08-2007, 01:20 PM

I'm trying to get rid of any leaks I have in poker early on so it won't eventually cost me thousands down the road. So what do you when you are sitting there with AKo, MP raises to 4 BBs, you 3-bet from the button to 12 BBs, he raises all-in (100BBs maybe), Hero ????

At this point, villains range can be about AKo, AKs, and 99+. Is this a fold? Because at best we are 50:50 or 45:55. At worst we are behind big time. I find at microstakes, this is never AQ or lower, but mostly mid PPs. So do we fold because going around looking for 43:57 flips is unprofitable in the long term. And the times we are up against KK or AA we lose big time.

So even with the money already in the pot, is calling this sort of overbet shove with AKo unprofitable? AKs?

AZplaya · #2 10-08-2007, 01:28 PM

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I find at microstakes, this is never AQ or lower

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you table select bad [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
Against an absolute unknown, flip a coin, I don't think folding or calling is significantly different ev wise.

Jailblazers · #3 10-08-2007, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find at microstakes, this is never AQ or lower

[/ QUOTE ]
you table select bad [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
Against an absolute unknown, flip a coin, I don't think folding or calling is significantly different ev wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regarding the table select, I was actually gonna mention how there are donks who push w/ rags. Obviously call against them. Against unknown, probably gonna go with call then. So never fold AKo preflop w/ 100BB stacks unless an absolute nit pushes ftw.

KCrow · #4 10-08-2007, 01:32 PM

I don't think many people play 99-JJ like this. In this situation I'd fold to the all in against UTG and middle pos raiser's without reads. I'd much rather be going all in with AK than calling with it.

The B · #5 10-08-2007, 01:35 PM

in microstakes cash games I see a flop w/ AK before getting a bunch of money in the pot
ie) flat call original raise

*** this hand gets overplayed more than any other hand in poker

Jailblazers · #6 10-08-2007, 01:38 PM

Ok, so you're not 3-betting AK then???

Edited to add: If you are not 3-betting AK then read some of the articles that can be found in here about 3-betting light. Not only does it give you control of the hand, but you probably have the best hand anyway, it makes it easier to play post flop, and it will help give you a looser image if you are 3-betting often. 3-betting helps alot postflop because 1) People usually are scared of you having AA after the flop and give up their hand if they miss, and 2) It increases your range so people don't automatically assume you have Aces when you actually do. This'll help villains give you their whole stack when you flop big if you have been seen to be doing this often .

FWIW, in 6-max games I'm sometimes 3-betting with a really wide range (mid SC, all PPs, etc.) if I have a read on the villain and I'm in position and I feel I have a good enough table image to let me get away with it.

Someone tell me if this is wrong.

whyherro · #7 10-08-2007, 01:46 PM

I usually use the following rule:

3-bet AK pretty much always unless trying to get tricky.

If I raise AK and someone who doesn't 3bet often 3 bets me, I usually dump it.

If its someone who has shown positional awareness and I think is 3-betting wider than AA,KK, QQ I generally just shove.

Basically, you are trying to not call shoves with AK, but generate some fold equity with it.

Basically, there are better ways to make money at the micros than flip with people whose range is TT+, AK

The B · #8 10-09-2007, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so you're not 3-betting AK then???

Edited to add: If you are not 3-betting AK then read some of the articles that can be found in here about 3-betting light. Not only does it give you control of the hand, but you probably have the best hand anyway, it makes it easier to play post flop, and it will help give you a looser image if you are 3-betting often. 3-betting helps alot postflop because 1) People usually are scared of you having AA after the flop and give up their hand if they miss, and 2) It increases your range so people don't automatically assume you have Aces when you actually do. This'll help villains give you their whole stack when you flop big if you have been seen to be doing this often .

FWIW, in 6-max games I'm sometimes 3-betting with a really wide range (mid SC, all PPs, etc.) if I have a read on the villain and I'm in position and I feel I have a good enough table image to let me get away with it.

Someone tell me if this is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're taking into account that this is microstakes...you have to play ABC poker w/out overthinking situations...players at these levels will call you on every street with small pairs and open-ended draws

mookboi · #9 10-09-2007, 02:47 PM

I'm with Whyherro. I often dump AK to a 3bet OOP, much less to a 4bet. I'm basically never calling a push with AK, unless I have a good read. I'd much rather be the pushee (sounds better than pusher!).

kroeliewoelie · #10 10-09-2007, 02:58 PM

(Sadly) it depends on my mood. Usually I am not in the mood for dick measuring contests, so then I fold to unknowns and people who have shown to be at least moderately sane. Against a maniak, I call pushes. I have been shown AJ, 69s or whatever in different cases.

As a reaction to Jailblazer: You say by 3betting you gain control of the hand. In general against a sane opponent I agree. But sometimes there are people who push too much, but not so much that you are a huge favourite with AK. In these cases I might flatcall. I think you shouldn't be too dogmatic about 3betting. A major reason to 3bet AK is because of fold equity. Against some villains this is just non-existent.