Not really a bluff and not a value bet ...

Proofrock · #1 10-08-2007, 03:51 PM

Here's a hand from the final table of a $50 (6-max) freeze-out. BB has been loose and aggressive (30/26/15) throughout the entire tournament, so his 3betting range is pretty wide from the BB. FWIW, he tanked before checking the turn. All comments appreciated, but specifically:

(1) What do you think of shoving preflop?
(2) Any reason to shove the flop?
(3) If BB shoves the turn, do you call?
(4) What do you think of Hero's turn shove?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t49767)
UTG (t14338)
MP (t25780)
Hero (t64371)
SB (t25744)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t3200, 1 fold, BB raises to t9200, Hero calls t6000.

Flop: (t18775) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t11050, Hero calls t11050.

Turn: (t40875) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t29392 ...

ssnyc · #2 10-08-2007, 03:54 PM

proo...you're setting him all in correct? Dunno but a well titled piece...does he call with AK here? Does he fold AJ? Does he repop pre with QJ? All in all I like as I'm learning to force the decision on others with good success...

markbris · #3 10-08-2007, 03:59 PM

A)I like shoving preflop alot, you are raising from late so theres good reason for him to repop you on a resteal esp with him being so laggy. So its an easy shove preflop for me as you are most liekly ahead here and would like to end it right there. If he does call you are most likely racing, sometimes have him slammed and sometimes are slammed but good overall.

B) You could shove here as a bluff I guess, Im not really sure, I think you put yourself in some horrible spots like this by calling preflop.

C) No I dont think
D) Its not bad I dont think as it appears hes slowing down but really I have no reasoning for my C and D answers. A is most important point here I think.

Proofrock · #4 10-08-2007, 04:00 PM

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proo...you're setting him all in correct?

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Yep.

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does he call with AK here?

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If so, then a nice value bet? I can't say if he'll call AK here, but if he does he's making a mistake.

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Does he fold AJ?

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Or maybe a good bluff? I'd love it if he would fold AJ, but I doubt it. He may fold 99 or TT, though.

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Does he repop pre with QJ?

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Quite possibly. He's been 3-betting pretty frequently. However, if he has QJ here I'd expect him to bet again.

ssnyc · #5 10-08-2007, 04:03 PM

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proo...you're setting him all in correct?

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Yep.

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does he call with AK here?

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If so, then a nice value bet? I can't say if he'll call AK here, but if he does he's making a mistake.

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Does he fold AJ?

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Or maybe a good bluff? I'd love it if he would fold AJ, but I doubt it. He may fold 99 or TT, though.

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Does he repop pre with QJ?

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Quite possibly. He's been 3-betting pretty frequently. However, if he has QJ here I'd expect him to bet again.

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Given all the answers I say the play is solid...ballsy and he may flinch and fold a few better hands...one last question...would you take this line with QJ yourself? I think you reraise the flop with AQ and fold AJ...am I just confusing things more? lol

benneh · #6 10-08-2007, 04:07 PM

(1) What do you think of shoving preflop?

way too deep, you won't get called by worse hardly ever unless your opponents are very bad, and the rest of the time you're flipping with huge stacks.not necessary.

(2) Any reason to shove the flop?

will he fold weak queens, or 99-JJ here? will he call with <77? i don't think he does. i don't mind flatting here.

(3) If BB shoves the turn, do you call?

no, that's a horrible turn for us. we don't want to be the ones calling off chips here.

(4) What do you think of Hero's turn shove?

i love it. nh.

edit:

i totally didnt notice that villain 3 bet you pf. i don't mind shoving PF here at all since villains range is humongous. as played i think you played great.

Proofrock · #7 10-08-2007, 04:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A)I like shoving preflop alot, you are raising from late so theres good reason for him to repop you on a resteal esp with him being so laggy. So its an easy shove preflop for me as you are most liekly ahead here and would like to end it right there. If he does call you are most likely racing, sometimes have him slammed and sometimes are slammed but good overall.

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I was pretty torn about this, and I'm still not sure. If I shove, it's another t40k to him with t60k in the pot. I think his calling range is no looser than TT+,AK given our chip position and my image (I didn't put this in OP, but I'd say standard 6-max TAG, 20/15 or so). I expect he's 3-betting wide, but I don't know if it's wide enough that I want to shove here.

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B) You could shove here as a bluff I guess, Im not really sure, I think you put yourself in some horrible spots like this by calling preflop.

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I'm pretty expert at making early decisions that lead to horrible spots with tough decisions. At the very least it provides me with hands to post on 2p2 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Proofrock · #8 10-08-2007, 04:11 PM

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...one last question...would you take this line with QJ yourself?

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It's a moot point, because I would rarely call his 3-bet with QJ preflop.

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I think you reraise the flop with AQ ...

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Probably not.

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and fold AJ...

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Probably so.

levAA · #9 10-08-2007, 04:13 PM

1.) If he 3-bets hands like QJ this is an easy shove preflop

2.) With only one overcard and an aggressive opponent i'd shove the flop.

3.) No - now you have two overcards to your 88.

4.) If you have seen him c-betting and slowing down on the turn before - it's quite standard - otherwise i would be careful of a trap and check behind.

benneh · #10 10-08-2007, 04:15 PM

also, this is a bluff. anytime you're called here i expect you to be behind. i doubt villain is stacking off with ace high or smaller pairs here. we are simply hoping to fold out better hands with this bet since a larger part of his range has us beat than does not.