Blame Schneids

[HOWMANY]

Full 60. First limper is terrible. Raiser seems pretty bad but he's aggressive preflop and postflop. Way too loose preflop and doesn't really do anything well postflop. So basically he will usually be the 2nd best player any time I play with him except Gabe is in the game so he's been bumped down to 3rd.

UTG limps, I see villain has 3 chips in his hand on my left so I limp with 22 which is a standard fold for me unless the game is such that I'm expecting 5+ way action for 1 bet very regularly. Villain now raises [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] BB, limper and I call.

Flop 863r
Check to villain who bets, BB folds, utg calls, I c/r, both call

Turn T putting a Badugi on board
utg checks, I bet, villain raises, utg folds, I decide that there is a very realistic chance he is raising any two broadways here and the pot has now grown in size quite a bit, so I 3bet hoping to fold out 6 outters. He thinks a little and calls.

River 3
I check, he thinks a decent amount and bets, I fold

I told someone else this hand and in addition to telling me it was terrible they also told me that this is the kind of guy that could be stupid enough to bet QJ on the river even though no sane person ever has a hand they can fold.

[Joe Tall]

Schneider was sweating you?

[MitchL]

This seems extremely read dependent or I am missing something about the Commerce 60 in general. I think the presence of the 3rd player should send signals that you mean business. Villain has disregarded those signals either bc he is retarded or has a good hand. If he is retarded we have to call and in the future resist the impulse to play tricky against him. If he is at all sane the river is a fold.

[HOWMANY]

No I have never met Schneids but when this hand was happening I thought of the 44 hand he played in his last CR vid and the K4 hand he mentioned so I played it like this to see what would happen. He probably would have folded to the turn raise.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i've seen and done tons of stuff like this. it is incredibly high variance aggressive style and you have to feel your reads a lot, but when i do a bet-3-bet on the turn and check on the river with a hand like what you have and they bet, you basically have to fold, otherwise you should have just called down his raise.

note: most east coasters, vegas locals, or 40/80 and below players would typically never see this type of play, but it happens quite frequently in higher stakes california games.

2nd note: i typically dont really like playing like this though and it is probably very spewy in the long run.

[ProfessorBen]

That situation is way different from this one.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
when i do a bet-3-bet on the turn and check on the river with a hand like what you have and they bet, you basically have to fold, otherwise you should have just called down his raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

If the river wasn't a three, and we checked, our hand would be almost face up as very weak mase hand or a pure bust out hand, so it's tempting to call a different river. With the 3 pairing, it looks like our 2 pair is counterfeited, but that we're also never folding, so villain can confidently bet his overpairs, but won't bet his no pair hands.

However, there are so few EP raising hands that are raising the turn and even less that are calling our 3 bet, so folding looks good almost regardless of the river.

As is, it looks like this is a fold, and that it's not very close.

Someone kick me if I did an awful job of explaining my reasoning.

[surfdoc]

Glad to see that you are losing money with this play. I have burned up a few bets with it as well and I didn't even like that MHUSH thread where everyone was on schneiders jock for what seems like a pretty moderate to large spew.

[hoppscot22]

schneiders situation was so much different, and it was ONLINE

[Schneids]

Also fwiw I would give more credit to a guy raising two limpers from the button (even if he is loose preflop), than someone doing a blind steal. And, if I was playing live I would use his reverse tell as a sign of strength (to add: if the guy is holding 3 chips and the action gets to him and he instantly grabs for 3 more and raises, that is a STRONG hand almost always... if he hesitates and then grabs for 3 more, that's a weakish hand he randomly decided to get frisky with).

Anyway, you were there and you've played with this villain, so you should have an idea if he has any history of taking such a strong line with just overcards and if so, how often. That would be your deciding factor on the turn.