TPTK vs. LAG Maniac

[UCanThankMeL8r]

Hi all. This is my first posting, so please be kind.

Here's a hand I played last night. I have no idea if I did the right thing on the river, and would love the forum's input. Here's the hand: (sorry about the format, but I can't find hand history tool that accepts PokerRoom format)

Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.50 NL (real money), hand #P4-50909030-1860
Table -AD 4ever-'s HE, 1 Oct 2007 7:16 AM ET

Seat 3: UCanThankMeL [ QD,AH ] ($43.15 in chips)
Seat 4: Calico Jazz ($7.85 in chips)
Seat 6: fdclan ($25.00 in chips)
Seat 7: zgo71 ($7.80 in chips)
Seat 8: Skiminok84 ($30.70 in chips)
Seat 9: black A ($53.85 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Calico Jazz posts blind ($0.15), fdclan posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
zgo71 folds, Skiminok84 folds, black A calls $0.25, UCanThankMeL bets $1, Calico Jazz folds, fdclan folds, black A calls $0.75.

FLOP [board cards KS,6C,AS ]
black A bets $1.50, UCanThankMeL bets $3, black A calls $1.50.

TURN [board cards KS,6C,AS,3C ]
black A bets $2, UCanThankMeL calls $2.

RIVER [board cards KS,6C,AS,3C,6H ]
black A bets $25, ...

Call, raise or fold?

Before you answer, here's what my PokerTracker database has to say about "black A":

# hands: 62
VP$IP: 80.65
PFR%: 24.19
PF AF: 0.38
Flop AF: 3.00
Turn AF: 4.67
River AF: oo

[whyzze]

it says its supports pokerroom ring games. Make sure to set to 2p2 format.

http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

[Perk76]

Needs a converter. I fold as played. Looks like a 25.00 bet into $13.00 pot or so.

When you decide to raise (in this case the flop), do not miniraise as that gets you absolutely no information. I raise to $4.50 - $5.50 in this spot. At this point its just a donk bet by the villan. Basically your miniraise is setting up the price for a draw and getting no information about the villans hand.

His turn bet is very small compared to the pot which looks like he is still trying to price his own draw or just has a small piece. As played you can raise here also.

You kinda made the hand difficult to play by miniraising and then calling the very weak turn bet. I still fold the river here since maniacs like to get their large bets paid off when they have something. I would imagine your 1 pair is not good here.

[Nick C]

Isn't there something you can do about the hand history? It's pretty confusing at the moment. (How can Villain limp for $0.25 in a $0.25/0.5 game, for instance?)

Edit: Er, wait, I guess the blinds are $0.15 and $0.25. I was thrown by what it said at the top.

[Ranma4703]

Call river, maniac thinks you are weak because you didn't raise his turn bet. Maniacs tend not to be smart enough to play their strong hands like they play their weak ones, plus the fd missed. You are good here > 50% of the time

[Nick C]

Eh, playing this deep with a strong but not monster hand against a maniac isn't much fun. And since he gets progressively more aggressive (according to his stats) as the hand goes along, you have to at least be thinking about whether or not you're willing to play for stacks right from the outset.

I'm tempted just to keep calling and trap, but the problem with this is if he has half a brain, it allows him to bet smallish when he wants to posture or set his price but bet bigger if he actually likes what he's got a lot (not that I would necessarily trust his judgment on that). Also, it allows him to build a pot that, if you don't feel committed to showing down, he can steal with a huge bet on the turn or river. And all of this is fine if you've got a solid read on his bet-sizing, but I don't. (And maybe you didn't either.)

He's going to posture on a club. He's going to posture if the board pairs. But there might be some technique involved, with regard to his bet sizes.

Ugh. I'd have to see him play, but I might make a nice big raise on the flop. If I did that, it would be with the intention of playing for stacks if he came over the top. It would also be partly because I knew he couldn't stop trying to be a bully and/or could not release a piece of the flop.

The problem with stats alone here is that they don't say anything about Villain's bet-size tendencies or what he does when played back at. This is an incredibly tricky hand to play, this deep, without knowing something about those things.

[UCanThankMeL8r]

Yeah, http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php claims to work with PokerRoom hand histories, but I don't think it does. Could be because PR recently changed their hand number scheme. I know PokerTracker needed to be patched to support the new format.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the replies.

In the end, I called on the river and he turned over T6o.

In retrospect, I don't think the call was a bad one. It's very possible for him to have bluffed in that situation. Two things about my play bother me though.

First, I called him on the river not because I looked at his stats, and read the overbet as a bluff. No. I called on the river because I was p**sed at him. He had raised me off two top pair hands previously, and even though I thought he was bluffing my hand wasn't strong enough to play. So, on this hand, I thought I'd teach him a lesson. Bad idea and bad timing.

Second, I played the flop and the turn timidly. By just min-raising (as others have pointed out), I gave him the correct odds to draw to 5 outs. More importantly, I gave him an opportunity to bluff me off the pot if a scare card hit. Now he has two ways to win. Just calling on the turn was also a mistake. I would have preferred to end the hand on the flop, but I could still have ended it on the turn if I had raised 2-4x his bet.

An expensive lesson.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php claims to work with PokerRoom hand histories, but I don't think it does. Could be because PR recently changed their hand number scheme. I know PokerTracker needed to be patched to support the new format.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the replies.

In the end, I called on the river and he turned over T6o.

In retrospect, I don't think the call was a bad one. It's very possible for him to have bluffed in that situation. Two things about my play bother me though.

First, I called him on the river not because I looked at his stats, and read the overbet as a bluff. No. I called on the river because I was p**sed at him. He had raised me off two top pair hands previously, and even though I thought he was bluffing my hand wasn't strong enough to play. So, on this hand, I thought I'd teach him a lesson. Bad idea and bad timing.

Second, I played the flop and the turn timidly. By just min-raising (as others have pointed out), I gave him the correct odds to draw to 5 outs. More importantly, I gave him an opportunity to bluff me off the pot if a scare card hit. Now he has two ways to win. Just calling on the turn was also a mistake. I would have preferred to end the hand on the flop, but I could still have ended it on the turn if I had raised 2-4x his bet.

An expensive lesson.

[/ QUOTE ]

If his smallish bets tend to mean he's weak, then putting in a big raise can be a good idea, even if he'll fold most of his worst hands to that raise, if he's probably only going to continue betting small. In that scenario, he's creating a situation where there's not much left to be won from him on future streets, even though he'll keep betting, unless he hits his miracle (in which case, unfortunately, he'll beat you).