hand ranges

[liveplaya]

wat up guys?
i find myself having problems always asigning hand ranges to players,i am either giving players to much criedt for a good hand or not enuff.
example
live 1-2 game max 60bb buyin

Im utg and straddle,utg1 just calls semi tight player plays st8 forward prob only raise pre flop w kqs or better 3 other lags limp behind and 1 very tight player completes his bb i look down at qjs and rasie 1.5x the pot only first limper and very tight player calls. I decide if tight player does not lead out of bb im shoving w tp or any flush draw or open ended.
wat hand ranges would you a sign them??
wat hands would you a sign them if say.....every 1 at the table thought I didn't look at my cards???? And how would my open shove effect there decision either way????

[liveplaya]

this really doesnt have ne thing to do w hand ranges yet i will go into more detailed problems that i have been running into after this hand unfolds.

[Gonso]

whew... tough to read that OP

If you're playing a 60bb game with a straddle, that's going to be a fairly loose game.

Here you straddle. UTG+1 limps, and based on your experience with him he's weaker than KQs, and based on that he's probably a pretty poor player. 3 lags limp after so they could have pretty much anything, although I'd be inclined to rule out premium hands unless they're also very bad. A "very tight" BB completing here means nothing, he can call with a huge range of hands.

I don't really like your raise here unless you expect it will take down the pot right away.

If effective stacks are around the buy-in amount, there's not a whole lot I can imagine some of these players can limp with and then call this big raise with. I'm worried about the first limper if he's one of those that tries to be slick limp-calling AA here (very unlikely), and I guess the BB could have QQ if he's very tight and a little passive.

Small pairs and little connectors shouldn't really be getting implied odds here (but again we'd need specific stack sizes, you left it out), and also only you know about your propensity to pay people off if they hit.

I guess they could have hands like yours, medium pairs, or something like AQ-AT. All around it looks like a pretty wild games with some bad play going on - all the more reason not to build a pot OOP with QJs.

If you didn't look at your cards... well, it's already a crazy enough problem. Can you tell us any more about these players or stack sizes? If they're bad players it will be difficult to put them on narrow ranges, since a lot of the time they won't be doing anything that makes sense anyway. They could be be playing 76s without odds and hoping for the best.

[liveplaya]

all players at the table don't understand any real concepts of the game. Stack sizes r all about 60bb. I'm not worried about the utg+1 limping a big hand, he def would come in w a rasie in that pos. Try to ingnore the hand I am rasing w.

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
all players at the table don't understand any real concepts of the game. Stack sizes r all about 60bb.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they're this level of bad across the board, they could show up with almost anything. Any pair, any two suited, any broadway, any ace, any two cards they find interesting or pretty...

I'd shave off the very best and very worst hands and keep an open mind, bet or raise for value only.

[liveplaya]

ok so given ur suggestion of value betting the best and dumping the worst, if utg+1 shows up w 77 what given range would you a sign for furture play????
the flop came a-q-j bb checked i shoved utg+1 calls bb fold

[PantsOnFire]

On the first round, they probably have a very wide range. After your raise, we can narrow things down a bit.

First of all, any slowplaying of a big hand is now very unlikely since a raise from you is what they would be looking to act on.

Now how low to range them is going to be difficult. It will depend a lot on how your table image is with them. If you didn't look at your cards or they think you didn't, then you have to range even lower.

The tight player is out of position so I believe he would not have a hand like ATs but more like 77-TT but sometimes even tight players play T9s or Jts.. He is looking to hit the flop or get out. UTG+1 has position so I think he can have a wider range like pp, suited connectors, and depending on the type of player he is, maybe two suited paint or a decent Axs hand.

Overall, with your hand of QJs, I don't really like your position here. If a bunch of non paint cards come, you only have two overcards and could be facing straights and sets. If an A or K comes, I would be worried about UTG+1. Overall, there are not many flops I would be happy with other than trip Q or J, flush or straight draw or two pair. Maybe TP would be good since you say UTG would usually raise KQ or AQ.

Perhaps your pf raise wasn't a good idea.

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
ok so given ur suggestion of value betting the best and dumping the worst

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I was talking about their hands, not yours. Assume these guys would have raised the best hands and folded the very worst.

Again, against this crowd, raising your QJs here seems very unprofitable. The hand is very marginal, you probaby don't have that much FE against inexperiencd players in a microstakes game, you're not that deep, and you're not in great position.

Plus, you're behind most of the hand that even bad players would call with here. If you hit your hand, there's a good chance it could hit someone else better. You usually aren't going to flop two pair.