Implosion - Stars $3 MTT late stages

Win.by.TKo · #1 09-26-2007, 08:27 PM

Greetings...I am looking for a second pair of eyes (or more) to take a look at these plays. As it is, I am in the top 5 in chips. We are just coming off the third break. I was able to get this chip stack by attacking some all-in moves. Here is hand #1:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

BB :Villain (t27473)
UTG (t22200)
UTG+1 (t8236)
MP1 (t31142)
MP2 (t18026)
CO (t22386)
Hero (t124301)
SB (t95173)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises to t4000, 1 fold, BB :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls t2400.

Flop: (t7450) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets t7000, Villain raises to t23323, Hero calls t16323.

Turn: (t54096) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t54096) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t54096

Villain showed T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I was bruised with this pot, and maybe stuck to my continued plan of attacking AI moves too tightly.

Hand #2

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG :Villain (t64146)
UTG+1 (t18750)
MP1 (t9186)
MP2 (t31292)
CO (t46722)
Button (t49465)
Hero (t92728)
BB (t65287)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t18600, 4 folds, Hero raises to t92578, 1 fold.

Flop: (t112078) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t112078) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t112078) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t112078

Villain showed T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

So I lost the race.
Hand #3

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (7 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB :#A500AF(Villain)/ (t62246)
BB (t39850)
UTG (t8886)
MP1 (t30992)
MP2 (t49165)
Hero (t73828)
Button (t112609)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to t3500, 1 fold, SB :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls t2700, 1 fold.

Flop: (t7100) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets t7500, Villain raises to t24000, Hero raises to t70178, Villain calls t34596 (All-In).

Turn: (t135874) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t135874) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t135874

Villain showed 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Going downhill fast.

Hand #4

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (7 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB (t62246)
BB (t39850)
UTG (t8886)
MP1 (t30992)
MP2 (t49165)
Hero (t73828)
Button (t112609)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to t3500, 1 fold, SB calls t2700, 1 fold.

Flop: (t7100) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t7500, SB raises to t24000, Hero raises to t70178, SB calls t34596 (All-In).

Turn: (t135874) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t135874) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t135874

Villain showed A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

This completed my quick descent. I finished in 44th place, my best finish in a non-SNG MTT.

Here is where I need the help. Where in these four hands should I have pulled back, if at all? At the time, I figured I could continue to take players out while building a larger stack and be prepared for adventures on the final table. What, in your opinion is the 'correct' strategy to employ in this situation? At what point should the plan be changed?

Thank you all for your insights.

Pokerfarian · #2 09-26-2007, 08:57 PM

Hand 2 is fine. The other's have postflop action and in all of them the converter has messed up the pot size making them harder to analyse properly.

ssnyc · #3 09-26-2007, 10:08 PM

take out results...nothing looks too bad...there is luck involved and you got outdrawn in the last three...getting outdrawn means you played it fine as long as the money went in prior to...don't stress over the results and keep the aggression...you will need it to win in these

Win.by.TKo · #4 09-26-2007, 11:20 PM

I had some issues with the converter. Hand three is completely off, but the theme is the same: I entered many races with a large stack. Knowing I could skate a little bit and let the smaller stacks knock each other out, would it be wise to hang low for a bit before attacking short stacks again?

Based on ssnyc's reply, attacking the shorter stacks is still a good play.

Thanks.

Uncle_Billy · #5 09-26-2007, 11:23 PM

I play hand 2 the same.

I don't like your minraises with the 6's both times. I raise 3x as a standard raise.

Hand 1 I bet 4700 or so into the flop. If I played the hand this way, and then pushed into, I'd be getting 2-1 to call with AK on the Q9 board - vs. now where you're basically priced in with your pot sized bet. It gives me some room to fold this hand - which I might actually entertain depending on reads. I also don't like the q and the 9 on the board either - based on this bet, I'm thinking he's caught some part of this flop, and/or has a smaller pair, both of which I'm behind... the only hands he has that might make sense given his betting that I have him beat with are J10, AJ, A10.

I'm least sure about how my choices about the last hand though, and would love to see some bigger brains comment here...

SuperUberBob · #6 09-27-2007, 12:14 AM

Hand 1: Bet less on the flop. Fold to resistance.

Hand 2: Standard

Hand 3,4: See Hand 1

Raise your 66 hand to 2.5x to 3x BB preflop.

Hand 4:

JammyDodga · #7 09-27-2007, 05:24 AM

OK, on the specifics I think I agree with most of teh above. However, I've gota few general points.

Table Image

Something is wrong with your table image - you are getting no respect, and people are looking at you as a way of doubling up off the big stack, rather than being afraid of you.

If people are playing back at you, you need to switch gears, fast. If people are making the kind of calls we saw above, then you are going to be able to extract ALOT of value from your better hands, and you have the stack to wait for it.

I'd have switched gears after hand 3 I think, unless there was a bunch of hands you didn't share which showed that people were actually respecting your raises.

With a big stack, table image, and how people are reacting to you is much more important than you cards. So much so, that if I have a table image problem, I consider folding 66 pre-flop, or limping and playing for set value. I know this sounds counter-intuitive, and that since you are ahead, you should definitely be rasing, but with 66 you aren't likley to more than a 55/45% favourite, and if people are going to play back at you with anything, you aren't going to know where you are.

Sometimes you'll raise if it seems right with 25 offsuit, sometimes you need to fold with an actual hand if it doesn't feel right.

Finally, I think you are slightly misunderstanding where the power/advantage of teh big stack comes from.

You are right, in that it gives you the chance to take slightly +EV flips, without the risk of going bust, but to be honest, you should really be doing this anyway, no matter what your stack size, so the advantage isn't that great.

Based on this persepective, alot of your plays were OK, as you were trying to exploit this.

However, the main reason why a big stack is powerful, is that you can put them to a decision for all their chips, without you risking going bust. This is incredibly powerful.

The busto gap.

There is a gap between what hands people are willing to put chips into the middle with, and what they are willing to go bust with. With a big stack, you need the ruthlessly exploit this.

Unfortunately, with a bad table image like you seem to have, the gap is non-existant. You need to slow down a bit, and try and widen this gap with a half-decent table image.

You need to pick your spots to put people under pressure carefully. Making big bets on the flop or the turn which suddenly turn medium/small pot/hand into one where the other guy is suddenly playing for all his chips is a good tactic.

Get them to put chips in where they aren't risking it all, and then suddenly raise the stakes.

The flip side of this, is that when people indicate that they are willing to go all the way with a hand, such as in hand 1, 3 and 4, you have lost your advantage, and you need to slow down or fold, unless you actually have a decent hand.

Win.by.TKo · #8 09-27-2007, 12:58 PM

The four hands came in the span of 16 hands after the break. I only played one other hand, a limp from MP1 w/ 44, which I c/f af when it didn't hit.

Prior to the break, I had knocked three people out on two hands, a KK vs QQ & AK preflop & 99 vs J7o & TT after a J98r flop. Prior to those two hands, I had played only three hands in the last 5 orbits. My stats for the entire tourney were 29/14/1.24. However, the last three levels they were approx. 21/11/1.3.

These players have been playing fast and fairly loose. I was under the (false?) impression that they were only playing their cards, esp. the short stacks.

RE: Busto Gap-This is the first time I have heard of this concept. It seems to say that instead of putting the AI question to an opponent after the flop, I should consider just a normal raise, maybe to 'price out' any draws & adjust depending on their reply.

Yes, I still have much to learn.

I have more questions regarding post-mortem analysis, but I will put it on another thread.

Thank you all for your help.

hamnegger · #9 09-27-2007, 08:47 PM

1. YOU ARE CO W 66 YOU ALMOST MINI RAISE? dont like that

2. hand 1 too big c-bet and then you compound it by calling the repop. i really dont like that one.

3. ak hand is completely standard.

4. you overplayed 66 on the flop in last hand.

Win.by.TKo · #10 09-27-2007, 09:01 PM

In later stages of a tourney, where all M's tend to be shrinking, I become uncertain what I should raise preflop. Also, most of the tourney I played a limp fit-or-fold with low PP, with the occasional 3xBB raise first in. Here I was uncertain. I didn't want to Min-raise, but was not sure if 3xBB was still appropriate here. 2.5xBB was a compromise based on uncertainty.

I guess only experience will cure this ill.