concept with a marginal hand HU for money

[daveT]

Suppose I have a super-strong holding such as

Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Flop comes down:

K52

Villain min-bets. This means that he has a smallish hand or a bluff.

Turn X

Villain min-bets again.

River Q

Villain min-bets.

The more I see this, the more I wonder how much value I would get if I just shove. I usually call here, because I can't see raising being valuable, but I wonder.

[KexChoklad123]

In this example calling is far better IMO, you win almost always. I guess you push as a bluff and figure he basically never can call? I actually prefer raising if he is really fishy compared to moving in

Stacksizes obviously matters alot

[jay_shark]

Dave , there is no point in shoving because you will only be called if you're beat .

Shoving actually reduces your aggregate expectation for the hand .

[daveT]

Okay, suppose I hold

QT

The board

J86 (3) T

Would there be any value here?

I think my OP was a poor example.

[Stealthy]

The shove does get looked up very light as do a lot of river raises as they look so much like bluffs. I am just not sure if middle pair is enough, but if your read is that he definately cannot have a Jack (in second hand) or better then you look well ahead of his range. The problem with the 2nd hand is that you are less likely to be looked up super light as some beleivable draws just got there. I prefer the first hand and think you can get looked up very light (mid PPs A5 etc) but still would not shove unless he was a bit short anyway.

[AbreuTime]

I call example 1 because then I know what he is donk-min betting with.