weird spot 100k

UTG-RAISE · #1 09-16-2007, 05:40 PM

oop blind vs blind .....missed flop, c-bet and then hit turn

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t800 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 (t20488)
MP1 (t22385)
MP2 (t4900)
MP3 (t9160)
CO (t2120)
Button (t15795)
Hero (t20203)
BB (t17681)
UTG (t3335)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero raises to t1770, BB calls t970.

Flop: (t3340) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t2400, BB calls t2400.

Turn: (t8140) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t4000, Hero ???

as played i called

River: (t16140) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t9436 (All-In), Hero ????

levAA · #2 09-16-2007, 05:53 PM

Preflop: you need to raise more - BB gets nearly 1:3

Flop: Your bet-size for a c-bet is a little bit on the large side, but i would also c-bet this flop.

Turn: You got top-pair now, so i really don't understand your checking here. I would lead out with about 6k.

As played i think this is quite an easy call on the river.

donquay · #3 09-16-2007, 10:10 PM

I'm not folding the river as played.

If you're not raising to 3x pf, I'd prefer just completing instead of what is essentially a minraise

hamnegger · #4 09-16-2007, 10:20 PM

i like the turn check but um you forgot to raise !!!!!!!! if he has a 4 wish him luck.

erc007 · #5 09-16-2007, 10:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
oop blind vs blind .....missed flop, c-bet and then hit turn

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t800 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 (t20488)
MP1 (t22385)
MP2 (t4900)
MP3 (t9160)
CO (t2120)
Button (t15795)
Hero (t20203)
BB (t17681)
UTG (t3335)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero raises to t1770, BB calls t970.

Flop: (t3340) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t2400, BB calls t2400.

Turn: (t8140) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t4000, Hero ???

as played i called

River: (t16140) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t9436 (All-In), Hero ????

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise to 2200-2400 pre...or just complete. Raising ~2xBB doesn't narrow his range, and your hand isn't strong enough to want to sweeten the pot OOP. With these size stacks, i just limp (unless BB is very tight.) You def don't want a hand like A4 3-betting you, and a lot of players will 3-bet with almost any Ace here. A small raise pre, then a big c-bet when u don't improve doesn't seem like a good line here either. Once u c-bet the flop, def c/c the turn.

If u bet 1500 on the flop, this hand is eaier to play, b/c you can check/call turn and block river for 5K (pot wuld have been 10K) making it eaiser to get value for your TP and making a river raise bluff impossible.

cheburashka · #6 09-16-2007, 11:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: Your bet-size for a c-bet is a little bit on the large side, but i would also c-bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lev, you're one of my favorite posters, so I'm not arguing, but why do you think this is so? I would agree on this particular flop, as there are no draws out there. But if the board is drawy, don't you need to go 2/3-3/4 to deny proper odds (unless you can guarantee that you'll never pay off on a hit)?

levAA · #7 09-17-2007, 03:23 AM

I'm usually c-betting around half-potsize against a single opponent. Sometimes a little bit more, sometimes even less.
By c-betting i don't want to deny odds for a draw (cause this implies that i already have a made hand and bet for value) but i want to take it down with a bluff.

C-betting gets much tougher these days i think, cause people are more aware of it, so you see more raises to a c-bet.

therefor i think it is important to c-bet a value which makes profit in the long run.

I see it from this side:
If I c-bet 1/2 of the pot - i have to take it down 1 in 3 times to break even
If I c-bet 2/3 of the pot - i have to take it down 2 in 5 times to break even
If I c-bet 3/4 of the pot - i have to take it down 3 in 7 times to break even

nath · #8 09-25-2007, 06:46 AM

call, you got the nizzles

THEOSU · #9 09-25-2007, 06:51 AM

seriously, top pair is totally nutty.

preflop raise sucks hardcore. you're minraising which he'll call a large percentage of the time, giving you the privilege of playing a raised pot OOP. hooray! just another 300 to 2100 makes a massive difference.