$0.10/$0.20 PS - AK hits TPTK in Extra Large Pot...wait till turn?

MikeRand2000 · #1 09-11-2007, 08:09 PM

Hi all -

I'm really confused about this hand. The only "read" I have is that the table is relatively tight for nano (~35% see flop), so I'm assuming that cold calls and reraises mean high pairs (TT+) and an AQ/KQ suited thrown in there.

I flop TPTK in an 18SB pot. Is this the time to wait until the turn and try to get the button to cut off gutshots? Or do I bet and hope the button raises?

As you can tell, I'm a losing player in nano trying to get through some big leaks (e.g. protecting good hands in large pots). I think this hand is a pretty good example.

Thanks,

Mike

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero (poster) raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG folds, Hero caps, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (18 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (14 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 17.60 BB

BigBadBabar · #2 09-11-2007, 08:10 PM

you capped pf and had first chance on the flop - just bet the flop.

MikeRand2000 · #3 09-11-2007, 08:13 PM

Is this a lesser of two evils kind of thing? In other words, I can't count on getting a turn raise, either, so I might as well bet even though anyone will be able to call?

BigBadBabar · #4 09-11-2007, 08:15 PM

right, the way to beat limit poker (and i've come up through all of the levels and it still applies even where i'm at) is to valuebet your best hands.

think of it this way: these guys are always gonna chase you down and chase their draws. make it expensive for them. that way the times they don't get there, you win huge pots.

MikeRand2000 · #5 09-11-2007, 08:23 PM

I really like nuances in the SSH section about protecting a good hand in a large pot, but hands like this make me think I'd be better off playing a far more simple "good hand + big pot = aggression now" strategy. It seems like misapplying fancy play syndrome (as I did here) might cost me more in the long run than missing a chance to make fancy play work. Am I way off?

DBSpecial · #6 09-11-2007, 08:25 PM

Agree with BBB, bet out the flop. Since you checked you pretty much had to raise too. Waiting to c/r the turn with a vulnerable hand is usually a bad decision.
Last card was one of the worst possible to fall and you got rivered, unlucky.

Absolution · #7 09-11-2007, 08:27 PM

Just bet the flop. You aren't in position to protect here anywhere so just go into value bet mode. The pot is so big and you don't have position on the raiser to make a protection play. There is no guarantee he's going to bet the turn either. Your bet on the turn is pointless in terms of protection as well because any draw can still call.

RemyXO · #8 09-11-2007, 08:28 PM

Mike, always think value betting first. Hand protection very remote second. And you cannot protect anything ever in a pot this big. Even gutshots facing two bets have odds to call - think about it!

Lead the flop, it's not even debateable.

Point Blank · #9 09-11-2007, 08:31 PM

know way i let that flop check around ... bet the damn flop ... the only reason to check is because you know BTN will always bet and you want to check raise that [censored]

and DUDE!!! ... you capped preflop!! ... checking almost looks like KK

river ... two players calling ... fushes and straights and low two pairs just hit

not really sure ... i might bet (maybe folding) - or check calling back one and folding if bet and raised

Absolution · #10 09-11-2007, 08:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really like nuances in the SSH section about protecting a good hand in a large pot, but hands like this make me think I'd be better off playing a far more simple "good hand + big pot = aggression now" strategy. It seems like misapplying fancy play syndrome (as I did here) might cost me more in the long run than missing a chance to make fancy play work. Am I way off?

[/ QUOTE ]

The times you can wait for the turn are rare and you wouldn't be giving up much if you didn't worry about it right now. To wait for the turn you have to have a lot of factors going in your favor:

1) You have to have position on the raiser to be able to protect.
2) You have to be sure he's going to bet again on the turn.
3) You have to be able to offer insufficient odds to draw on the turn.

In addition, sometimes
4) Your equity has to change significantly on the turn.