So this hand is pretty standard imo

[KitCloudkicker]

7 handed 10/20.

2 limpers. 1st limper seems weak tight, second is loose-passive.

I raise black hellmuths (99) in CO. button (loose passive) calls. Blinds fold, limpers call.

Flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Weak tightie bets. next guy folds. I raise with the button left to act.

Yes?

Or better to just call all 3 streets?

[leprous_hand]

I like everything about the raise. You are getting value from a flush draw and may discover if you are facing an overpair.

my only concern is does our weak tight lead here with QJ,TJ, KJ etc against the flush draw?

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
You are getting value from a flush draw


[/ QUOTE ]

not sure about that.

i honestly was torn between raising this or calling it. if the button wasnt behind me i'd definitely just call.

[leprous_hand]

yeah ... i always seem to err on the side of betting/raising... I usually feel if it was a mistake someone always puts me on spew later

[Man of Means]

Is this Foxwoods?

The villain in question is described as "weak tight" -- does he raise TT+ preflop? If not, then his range is pretty much trip J's, lower two-pairs and big flush draws. As such, you want to see a showdown unless the board drops an obvious turd.

I think raising this flop is fine but can you trust a 3-bet to tell you you're beat or do you just call down at that point?

You might also consider call flop, fsdr turn.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]


You might also consider call flop, fsdr turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

its borgota 10/20.

why fsdr? i would consider it with a hand like 33, trying to get better PP's to fold, but 99?

[Man of Means]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


You might also consider call flop, fsdr turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

why fsdr? i would consider it with a hand like 33, trying to get better PP's to fold, but 99?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe.

1) I don't think mid pp's fold, thats partly why you do it. But you balance this move with semibluff and pure value raises where you wait for the turn (say you had a J and wanted to slowplay)
2) Get value/protection vs 5 with OC kicker.
3) Get value from Flush draw, make bets go in when you're further ahead. As opposed to 2-3 bets on flop, and probably 1 big bet unless he gets there.
4) Easy fold to 3b vs a weaktight

5) 33 you might be more likely to raise flop with b/c folding button out is more urgent (i.e. 6-outers he may be tempted to call w/ 76, 64, A8 etc.)

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
why fsdr? i would consider it with a hand like 33, trying to get better PP's to fold, but 99?

[/ QUOTE ]

Either raising flop or turn has some chance of folding overcards. If you make the flop donker fold overcards on a brick turn you're better off.

[TheCount212]

I only play 3/6 Kit, so take this for what it's worth..

but IMO a true weak-tightie is not going to bet out at this flop without holding a J. Ever. (In fact, they usually don't bet out at any flops unless they've got at least TP.) They wouldn't dream of checking/slowplaying this because they want to take the pot right now. They wouldn't bet with merely a flush draw because they want to play as cheaply as possible until the third heart hits, and then they'll come out donking. My guess is you have a 3 outer here, needing either the case J or a 9 for your boat.
Of course, by raising you insure that a true W-T will check to you on the turn, earning you a free card. But if you don't catch that 9 or J and W-T bets out again I am instamucking.

[WhiteKnight]

The Count: Do you discredit villain's likelihood of holding a J if a third comes on the turn? We may fill up to a boat, but if you still give him credit for the J then he has quads right?