job vs self employment

[daveT]

After last months disaster, and spending a week killing a computer virus, I am in a reflective mood today.

^That is a terrible start.

So, how does The Lounge pay it's bills? I would think that the majority of posters here are self-employed. I know, for example that Katy Seagull and Blarg have jobs.

To keep this discussion going both ways, has anyone who is employed now ever been self-employed?

And for those who are self-employed, have you ever tried re-joining the work-force?

Why do you chose to have a job or not have a job? And what is/ was your last job. What sealed your desire to never work for someone again?

My story:

My last full time job was in 1999. I had two full-time jobs, but I quit the one and was working strictly at the Improv. I was lucky enough to pay for a two bedroom apartment at the time. I asked for one of two things: to be transfered over to serving, or for a raise. Well, the manager didn't think to well of me, so she gave me a raise of 25 cents.

I decided I had enough of this, and got a "job" as a bike messenger. This job spoiled any resolve to work again. The concept of it was too perfect. We were paid on a parcel basis. If I worked harder than the idiot working for 10 years, then I got paid more. If I wanted to have a beer for lunch, I couldn't get fired. I was an independant contractor, essentially working for myself. I want to take a week off from work? They couldn't stop me.

After working like this for the next two years, I surely couldn't find a job anymore. I did have two jobs since then, but they were very temporary.

I began my career doing free-lance writing and art (I know, very hard to believe I write). That didn't go as well as I liked. I moved to Miami to open a music publishing company. That tanked. I started street performing. I later learned how to build. It is a decision I regret, but whatever, I am a descent carpenter. I never had a job, I always worked as an apprentice or on my own. I then went on to do extra work, and now I play poker (hard to believe, I know).

I did attempt to find full-time employment earlier this year. I applied to Apple One, Kelly, et. al. and was rejected by all of them. I know how to use all of the programs and I type pretty darn fast, I explained, but they wouldn't have it. I couldn't send them a resume. I couldn't explain that I haven't had a job for nearly a decade, although I am not thirty yet.

The final judgement on employment is this: I am unemployable. I can't put together a resume. The biggest proof is that in my short working career, I was fired from over 20 jobs. With my lack of stability in the job market, I will never be hired for a job that guarantees a living wage. I would never trade this for the instability of working on my own, where at least I earn considerably more than minimum wage.

I feel better now.

I know that this a poorly written post. I hope that some of the responses will help it out.

[jjshabado]

I like the idea of working for myself, but I suspect I don't have the motivation to do it. When I get paid to do a job, and I'm doing a job I feel is important I have no problem working hard. But I can't get that motivation when I'm just working for myself.

My company has a pretty liberal working-from-home policy and whenever I do it I feel that I'm about a third as productive as I am at the office. For the last couple of months I've made the decision to only work from home when I have an appointment or some other reason for not going into the office.

I think the only real attraction working for myself has is that I'd be able to set my own hours/vacations a lot more. But after a couple more years of experience I think I'll be able to negotiate working 2/3 time with all of my health benefits. Since I live pretty cheaply I could have a good standard of living off of that salary and have lots of time off. I think I'd have a hard time achieving anything that good while being self-employed.

[stormstarter28]

didn't read, but the answer is self employment

[oddjob]

i have been a freelance graphic designer for the past 3 years.

after leaving my job of 5 years, it was difficult finding a company i really wanted to work for. my previous job had spoiled me too much. it was a small company of just 2-3 of us, workign with one of my best friends, but after 5 years, we decided to not renew our contract with our client. this was mostly due to the lack of respect we got, and the lack of money we were promised. (they ended up hiring a nyc design agency which probably cost them 5-10x what they were paying us.

i kept getting more and more clients, so i decided to just freelance, and work from home. i only worked when i had to, and didn't have to pretend to work when i wasn't busy. it was great. i was making more money, and working less.

then i moved to ny, and after 6 months decided it wasn't the right place for me in this point in my life. i moved back to denver, and tried to rebuild my business. i was very lazy about it, and the move and my lack of motivation (since i was making good money with poker at the time) defintily hurt me.

right now, i'm waiting to see if i get a pretty big project, that can turn into more big projects. if it happens, i'll stay freelancing, but if not, i may have to get a job. kinda sucky, but the thoguth of it doesn't completely annoy me. stability might be nice, along with health insurance.

freelance is good, if you have consistent work. i can get away with charging more, but the instability isn't for everyone. nor is working at home. it's kinda boring. and i realize without coworkers to make fun of, i have less to talk about with my friends.

[Copernicus]

In a consulting environment, if you don't require staff to support your work, then I can see "self-employment" being attractive. If it requires staff, technology etc, having a job is the way to go. You profit nearly as much without the risk and the headaches.

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]
it's kinda boring. and i realize without coworkers to make fun of, i have less to talk about with my friends.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like my kind of person! I like to talk about coworkers too.

[Keyser.]

[ QUOTE ]
didn't read, but the answer is self employment

[/ QUOTE ]

[katyseagull]

daveT -

I am employed full time and frankly I'm not loving it. My job is stressful and demanding. I fear I'm becoming a neurotic mess. It's really hard to stay on top of the game when they keep throwing new software at us. But at the moment I have no other choice. I owe thousands of dollars. Also, I like having health insurance. Anyway, there isn't any possible scenario where I could be self employed. I have virtually no talents whatsoever.


About your situation, I think you need help with a couple of things. First, it sounds like you really want to have a job, you just have no idea how to get one.

Your resume:
- You will need creativity and some massive lying. Isn't there anyone like a dad or brother who is willing to vouch for you and say they employed you for a few years? Couldn't you say you were self-employed for a number of years and list some of your computer skills and software knowledge?

Did you go to college at all, even if you didn't graduate? How about this carpentry thing, why do you regret it? I've heard that there is a shortage of carpenters in many big cities.

[BigPoppa]

OP:
If you do want to work, get a degree. When you apply for jobs, say you were a carpenter for the 10 years before you went back to school. They won't check, because your carpentry experience is meaningless to them. But at least you won't get rejected out of hand for never having held down a steady job.

[Belok]

Dave, my situation is fairly similar to yours. I'll give you my cliff notes -
-Dropped out of college after 1 year as a CS major (sounds bad, but circumstances were very extreme and I still support it as the best decision of my life.)
-Worked for my dad as a Handyman/apprentice for 2 years.
-During my time at college and as a handyman, I started to get good at poker.
-Earned enough extra income to go in with my dad and start trying to break into Real Estate Investment. We read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and decided that we would flip houses/apartments and be millionaires.
-Real estate biz sucks. Especially in my town.

All was going well and good until...

-GF gets pregnant.

Now this is the point where I started thinking "Oh my god, I'm going to have 2 girls and a dog dependent on me for the rest of my life, and I'm still a gambler!".

I did make the decision to go back to school and get a degree - probably in some area of Business. This way I can find an employer if necessary, but can still use the skills I learned to remain self-employed.

Games have always been my curse/addiction/passion. I am very good at them. Poker was the perfect outlet to turn my passion into a living. It just fits me. And as long as I can make the kind of $ I have been, I will not get another job. My second choice after poker would be to start up some home-business and run that myself. My very last choice would be employment. I cant stand the thought of being completely reliant on some company/boss and give them the power to hold my living over my head.



Anyway - the point is - do whatever you are passionate about. In your post, it seemed like poker was more of a footnote than anything, so it probably is not your passion. And you didn't really seem to enjoy your previous jobs, aside from bike messenger. Figure out your passion, figure out how to make money from it, and have a backup plan if it fails.

But hey, I'm just 22, what do I know :P