a hand i butchered

[counterspell]

terrible bay 101 20/40 game, mostly tight/passive with the only soft spot on my right.

Preflop: TAGgish guy limps UTG, other TAGgish guy 3 off the button raises, loose-passive old guy calls in CO, i call K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] OTB, BB and UTG call.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

checks around to CO who bets, i raise (???) in an attempt to clean up kings and nines, BB folds, UTG calls two, pfr folds, CO calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG donks, CO calls, I raise, they both call.

River is a small 4th diamond, it checks to me and i check.

[ProfessorBen]

I don't think the flop is questionable. It's very unlikely you're getting 3-bet on this board unless UTG or CO already have you crushed and you want to find that out as cheaply as possible. Folding another T or K6/K7 is sex and the possibility of taking a free card on the turn ain't so bad. Raise is solid.

The turn is an easy fold for me and I subscribe to the don't fold in big pots train of thought. Less so if the pot is HU, but villain has you crushed by the turn if he's a TAG. What hands are you beating that he's limping UTG, coldcalling 2 on the flop and donking in a multi-way pot on the turn? I feel like 9d9x is a stretch, and that's about it.

Also, really not looking forward to play at B101 anymore.

[n.s.]

PF and flop seems standard.

On the turn, I think it's close between calling and folding. If I'm counting correctly, you are getting 10:1, so you only need 4ish outs to call. I think it's too soon to put anyone on a made flush, so you might have 5 outs (2 non-diamond Ts, 3 non-diamond 9s). A raise here is spew - UTG is going to have you beat pretty much 100% of the time.

As played, I think a river bet might be in order (clarkmeister). The pot is big (16 BB) so you only need it to work like 6% of the time. I think that the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] would be too concerned about it checking through to not bet here, which increases the chance that no one has a diamond. I'd bet and expect to lose to CO's 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or whatever, but win just often enough to make it profitable.

[jkamowitz]

utg's play seems really weird to me. And I'm having trouble putting him on a hand other than maybe J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or maybe a strangely played 77, who thought he was going to c/r the flop but you foiled his plan and now he doesn't want the turn to get checked through. But yeah, I agree with others, I like the flop but that turn is almost the worst turn for you.

What were your plans on a brick river?

[ProfessorBen]

The river is not a good application of the Clarkmeister theorem.

[Captain R]

I fold preflop. You guys can have my $0 with two TAGs in the game UTG and calling UTG+1 and a cold-caller. I'll wait for round 2.

[ProfessorBen]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop. You guys can have my $0 with two TAGs in the game UTG and calling UTG+1 and a cold-caller. I'll wait for round 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're leaving money on the table. Also, this analysis isn't helping the meat of the hand.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
You're leaving money on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you give handranges for a TAG limping UTG and another TAG who raised when only he is in the pot? I doubt you're missing any significant equity here even if the coldcaller is playing random cards.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
The river is not a good application of the Clarkmeister theorem.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I remember right, the Clarkmeister theorem actually specifies that we are out of position when the 4th suited card comes, so it technically doesn't apply here. It seems to me that the basic tenants are the same, though (especially that it's an easy fold to a raise).

Regardless of the clark. theorem, though, you don't think it's worth a bet here to try and pick up the pot if neither opponent has a big heart?

[ProfessorBen]

The tenets are not the same because you've already represented a flush on the turn. Any baby flush is check/calling. It's doubtful that the CO is folding anything he has here if it gets folded to him.