Semi-bluff Flush or Straight draws more often?

tbaarslag · #1 08-23-2007, 05:15 AM

Just a general question: am I right to suppose that we have to semi-bluff our flush draws more often than our straight draws?

(Because the straight is better concealed, offering better implied odds)

FooSH · #2 08-23-2007, 10:38 AM

Yup, it's super transparant c/cing with a flush draw. Straight draws also have the advantage of letting your opponents catch up a bit and pay you off better, just try to avoid drawing to the bottom end.

It's worth noting at the higher limits this is well known, here it can be better switching lines over from time to time.

PantsOnFire · #3 08-23-2007, 10:40 AM

(let's assume a non-paired board)

Yes, that sounds about right. Besides, a lot of the time with a nut flush draw, your A is another three outs so you are very close between value betting and semi-bluffing.

Further, straight draws can range from good to very bad. A nut straight draw on a non-flush board is a mile better than a non-nut straight draw on a two flush board.

As well, I like semi-bluffing out of position. If you are last to act, your bet might look like a button steal or you could be check-raised. I probably never semi-bluff a straight draw when I am last to act and can get a free card.

tbaarslag · #4 08-23-2007, 11:03 AM

Thanks, I was a little shaken by

With any draw situation in which you have a draw that is <50% likely to hit on the river, simple pot odds suggest that your optimum scenario is that it gets checked through to the river.
from: Pricing yourself in draws

This means I am betting my draws way too often! Example:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed)

BB ($93.85)
UTG ($47.75)
MP ($100.30)
CO ($15.05)
Hero ($128.25)
SB ($110.45)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 1 fold, BB calls $2.50.

Flop: ($7.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB folds.

This should have been a check, right?

Acey · #5 08-23-2007, 11:35 AM

With Fold Equity your semibluff probably has +EV

PantsOnFire · #6 08-23-2007, 12:01 PM

No, that's a very good situation for a straight draw. You were the pf raiser, there is no flush draw, your draw is to the nuts, you are out of position and you have two overcards.

This scenario you described I would say that you have to bet just as you did and just the amount you did.

I would just caution you that your two overcards may appear to be clean outs but they are not. Either a 9 or T will put a three straight on the board with a 9 being the worse card. This however doesn't change how you played the hand just beware of it if you are called and the turn is one of those cards.

tbaarslag · #7 08-23-2007, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, that's a very good situation for a straight draw. You were the pf raiser, there is no flush draw, your draw is to the nuts, you are out of position and you have two overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably never semi-bluff a straight draw when I am last to act and can get a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your detailed response, but I am still confused: I am in position here, last to act.

Does this change it to a check?

tbaarslag · #8 08-23-2007, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With Fold Equity your semibluff probably has +EV

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, the question is: is checking even more +EV?

tarheeljks · #9 08-23-2007, 03:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With any draw situation in which you have a draw that is <50% likely to hit on the river, simple pot odds suggest that your optimum scenario is that it gets checked through to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

this statement does not account for fold equity, which you have a lot of since you raised pf. a cbet on this flop will take down the pot a large % of the time; this is what you want to happen b/c you are behind to overcards and small pp's (granted you have good equity against the latter).

you could consider checking if you're opponent likes to c/r, but the default in this spot is to bet.

mattak · #10 08-23-2007, 03:56 PM

No, you are playing against his range right now, not his hand. The average player will fold to this bet a majority of the time. This makes it +EV to bet. You should be C-betting with almost your entire range of hands on this board vs. unknown. If your opponent was inclined to check raise often, you may want to take a free card. When it comes to C bets, I take an approach of always making one unless I can find a good reason not to.