LOL he cant call this can he? 3 Deep barrels vs a reg

cs3 · #1 08-20-2007, 05:21 AM

villain is a regular and usually 8 tables (as he was at the time of this hand) His style is not the typical 2p2 game, but im sure hes at least a small winner and is definitely a thinking player.
hes tight/passive PF running 23/7 over his last 400+ hands. slightly nitty postflop - although he is way more aggro postflop when he has a strong hand than he is PF...
(he shoved a flop with bottom 2 after a bet and a raise once, another time called a flop bet + raised turn bet after hitting a strt, and another time 3 bet a turn all in with KK. these were all vs 100bb stacks or less so im not sure how he would play any of these hands deeper... im assuming more cautiosly).
doesnt call river bets much (hardly ever showsdown marginal hands, or any hands for that matter) seems like hes either raising or folding (river AF = 5).
he has direct position on me and has been calling lots of PFRs, but has folded both times so far to a second barrel on the turn after i raised PF and we went HU to the flop.
a couple times hes showndown missed draws where i checked the flop to him and he checked behind, then he called a turn bet and river went c/c.

i had been playing 21/16 and had showndown 3 monsters in the big pots so far...
stacked a guy with a flopped set firing 3 streets, lost one stack when i ch/r flop with a set and got it all in on turn to rivered straight, then flopped a strt and shoved flop to get another stack


Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $191.15
BB: $325.45
UTG: $108.90
BTN: $96.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt A

3

(4 Players)
2 folds, Hero raises to $4.00, BB calls $3.00

Flop: ($8) 7

9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5.00, Hero raises to $19.00, BB calls $14.00
 thought i would try something i dont usually do on the flop - figured he would fold any pocket pair or lone pair/no draw less than T here.
when he called i put him on pair + strt draw, 2 pr,
and he could likely play JJ+ this way given his super passive PF tendencies... maybe even play bottom set this way?


Turn: ($46) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $35.00, BB calls $35.00

wow! scary ass turn - but for him or me?
betting is pretty much standard given my flop line right?
villain timed way down before calling. and when villain just calls he never has a flush... right?
i felt his most likely hands were turned 2 pr, then straights (JJ, TJ, 9J, 67,) then sets

River: ($116) K

(2 Players)
Hero bets $99.00

i got this far, and the pot is pretty huge, and he doesnt seem real sure about his hand, so [censored] it.
Lets see you call THAT [censored]!

ValarMorghulis · #2 08-20-2007, 05:32 AM

I'd c/fold turn and c/fold river. When I put villain on a strong hand I never try to make them fold it.

ChoicestHops · #3 08-20-2007, 07:31 AM

I don't understand why you want to play your hand so aggro on a terrible board when you don't have a piece of it.

Dire · #4 08-20-2007, 07:33 AM

Never going to be profitable to try to bluff $100 players off 2pair/straights/sets. I wouldn't be suprised to get paid off by 78 even on a board like this.

Nielsio · #5 08-20-2007, 07:34 AM

100% spew on every street except preflop.

ChoicestHops · #6 08-20-2007, 07:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
villain timed way down before calling. and when villain just calls he never has a flush... right?
i felt his most likely hands were turned 2 pr, then straights (JJ, TJ, 9J, 67,) then sets

[/ QUOTE ]

I also don't like him timing down. He obv likes his hand and is thinking about the correct play. You aren't putting him on a marginal hand. Two pair is possible like you said then you give him sets and straights and you have A high. I just don't like it.

BDaws · #7 08-20-2007, 07:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
100% spew on every street except preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't mind river after he times down on the turn.

cs3,
This is huge huge huge fancy play syndrome. Just bet the flop. Check raising this flop as the PFR is really weird and spewy. Especially when you have absolutely no piece of the flop.

The turn is really bad too. He's going to call this turn bet a huge percentage of the time. Any hand that he calls the flop with has either improved or is already strong enough to call turn being in position facing an extremely weird line that doesn't make sense and is likely a bluff.

River isn't bad because people at NL100 are on the weak tight side facing big postflop bets. He'll call 100% with a flush or a J, but if he timed down on the turn, I don't know how likely that is.

But seriously, take a step back and look at the hand. You put 190BB's at risk in this hand with A high no pair no draw. That has to be a leak. Good thing he folded this time, but in the future, don't do this.

Noam Chomsky · #8 08-20-2007, 10:09 AM

If you're going to do this (I can't imagine why you would?) at least get your bet sizing right.

Bet 40-42 on the turn so you can shove for pot on the river like you would with a big hand.

cs3 · #9 08-20-2007, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I don't mind river after he times down on the turn.

cs3,
This is huge huge huge fancy play syndrome. Just bet the flop. Check raising this flop as the PFR is really weird and spewy. Especially when you have absolutely no piece of the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
i know... but he had seeen my ch/r a flop recently with a set. and when the heart fell on the turn i thouhgt it was a good scare card to continue with... because dont i rep either 1)set 2)flush 3) straight?

[ QUOTE ]

River isn't bad because people at NL100 are on the weak tight side facing big postflop bets. He'll call 100% with a flush or a J, but if he timed down on the turn, I don't know how likely that is.

But seriously, take a step back and look at the hand. You put 190BB's at risk in this hand with A high no pair no draw. That has to be a leak. Good thing he folded this time, but in the future, don't do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

i felt like once i bet the turn i could profitably bet any river becasue he never has a flush, and rarely has a straight. he would likely even fold bottom striahgt right?

i agree that i butchered this hand on the flop, and hte turn was pretty meh, but i think that his range for calling the river is tiny as compared with the range that he called the turn with

cs3 · #10 08-20-2007, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to do this (I can't imagine why you would?) at least get your bet sizing right.

Bet 40-42 on the turn so you can shove for pot on the river like you would with a big hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
are you serious?
so you really think that betting a few $ more on turn and river would have made villain make a different decision?
no.

i actually thouhgt my bet sizing was scarier than an outright shove