Heads-up chop question

[RobGarf]

I'm hoping to get some feedback on whether or not the chop I made at Saturday's $560 tournament was a good decision.

After being the shortstack at the final table, I went on a rush and actually was 2nd in chips with 3 players left. 1st paid $13,800, 2nd $7,140, and 3rd $4,400.

I initiated a chop discussion but because I was one of two big stacks, I only wanted to do it by chip percentage. The short stack wisely rejected the offer even after we agreed to sweeten his total. So we played on.

First hand I played a big one with the chip leader - solid lag that regularly shows up at Fwds final tables - called him down with AT on QQKK4 board. This led to a complete meltdown on his part (he played like he had to leave but I saw him hanging out afterward) and soon I was headsup with a T480,000 to T320,000 lead and ante and blinds ready to go to 1000/8,000-16,000 for 30 minutes. Even though there was still a lot of play, I brought up a chop again - I know initiating the discussion isn't the smartest move when negotiating but I would have been pissed to end up walking away with only 7K versus 13K. I felt like I was the stronger player but not by much and this was the one player I didn't have a good read on. Plus, the money meant a lot more to me than prolly anyone else at the final table.

I read that a chip-percentage chop isn't as advantageous for the larger stack when it's down to two players so I agreed to a straight chop of the 21K -$10,500 each- but since I was the chip leader, he would have to take the 1st place 13K slip Foxwoods gives out, thus giving me more of a tax advantage.

A FW regular -nice guy and very good 5-10NL player- was nearby and he said that only amounts over 10K get reported (or was it that the IRS only cares about amounts over 10K?) and my opponent agreed with him and then mentioned he was a CPA when I questioned the accuracy of that number. Since he said he'd be taking the tax hit, he wouldn't do this deal.

We finally settle on him getting $11,500 and the first-place 13K slip and me getting $9,500 and the second-place 7K slip. My thinking was that instead of $10,500 each, which is a straight chop and one I was willing to do, I give him an additional $1000 to avoid paying up to $2000 in taxes. Is this a good deal for me or did I fk up?

I'm inexperienced with chopping so if I made a mistake so be it - just want to make sure I don't get taken advantage of the next time. This btw was the first tourney I played in in a couple years (been playing 2-5NL a few times a week for past six months) but the play was much weaker in this than at the cash games. On that note, I've noticed the ratio of solid players to donks at the 1-2NL and 2-5NL tables has increased significantly...the cat has definitely been let out of the bag.)

[Rags]

As Howie would say, you didn't make a great deal...

You both had $7140 locked up, so you're playing for the additional $6660 (the difference between 1st and 2nd).

At that point in the tournament, you had 60% of the chips, so you're entitled to $11,136 ($3996 + $7140). If you felt like you were the stronger player, taking $9,500 is not a very good deal, even taking into account the tax consequences. I might have proposed taking $11,700 (to his $9300) and the higher tax slip or somthing in that vicinity.

You're responsible to pay taxes on your winnings, regardless of the amount. It's not at all true that the IRS is only interested in amounts over $10,000. There are reporting requirements for cash transactions over 10K, but that has nothing to do with what you report on your tax return.

[The B]

how can a heads-up chop question be 8 paragraphs long??

sorry, didn't read

[RobGarf]

B, are u serious? so sorry i provided some context and included some actual poker details. I see you took the time to count the paragraphs but not to read the words. Are you a nit or a moron or both?

Rags, thanks for the response...i think you're right but I actually felt okay when I saw your $11,700 suggestion. Essentially, I did get that amount (the $9500 and the $2000 I'll save from having to report 7K and not 13K). I have 7k to write off but no more so $6000 would have been taxed...

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Just remember with chops - you're both guaranteed the 7K, you're only chopping up the difference above that. The fair chop, assuming equal skill, is 3:2 of the difference in your favor. If you remember this principle you'll do ok on deals. If they give out tax slips only according to the posted payouts (ala harrahs) then that is an additional consideration, but not my area of expertise.

Al

[youtalkfunny]

I don't care what the tax or reporting requirements are, it can't be a good idea to take <50% of the money when you hold 60% of the chips.

[FatalError]

you don't have to pay taxes if you make a deal, there are forms for that stuff

[daryn]

i gotta start playing tournaments at foxwoods

[RobGarf]

appreciate the diss, daryn
being inexperienced in tournament play, the reason I asked is so I don't make the same mistake again - if in fact I made a mistake...the 13K slip, sans the 5457 form that fatal e mentioned, represented a minus $2,ooo net for my personal tax situation so in my mind I was getting $11,500. If I had taken the $11,500 the other guy got and the 13K slip, I end up with .......$9500.
As for having the chip lead, a 3-2 edge means very little headsup as just one double-up in the form of a bad beat or bad decision turns you into a 4-1 dog...and the thought of possibly walking away with only $7100 would have definitely impacted my play (as I was just taking a shot with this tourney and the money means a lot to me)...
thanks to the rest of you for the responses - much appreciated.

[mr.bum]

op must never try to buy a used car alone. he should always carry a strong dominant male with him while haggling.